Roberto Muehlenkamp debunked on Sobibor again, this time by Thomas Kues.

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Hannover
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Roberto Muehlenkamp debunked on Sobibor again, this time by Thomas Kues.

Postby Hannover » 2 years 4 months ago (Mon Jul 31, 2017 12:33 am)

Like all Zionists, Roberto Muehlenkamp has marketed false tales about the WWII transit camp, Sobibor. He is someone who has heavily invested himself in the standard 'holocaust' storyline, consequently he'll probably never let go.
Some people can never admit to being wrong.

Of course, the obvious question is: 'Why do so many people want 6M Jews to be dead?
Revisionists don't.
One would think that Jews especially would be elated to hear that '6M' of their brethren were not murdered.
But well, here we are. "There's no business like 'shoah' business."

Reminder, all Revisionists are former Believers who simply grew up.

Search this forum: Muehlenkamp Sobibor for much more.
You will see his evasion / dodging of challenge after challenge made by Forum participants.
Of course the same can be said of Roberto and all the absurdly alleged "death camps".

Muehlenkamp and those like him make claims that the remains of 250,000 allegedly 'murdered' Jews are still at Sobibor, but cannot show us those claimed human remains when challenged repeatedly. That by itself is damning, if not simply embarrassing.

Imagine, he / they claim massive human remains still exist and then are not able to actually show us those remains when challenged.
Two guys with shovels and a camera would be all that anyone needed.
But alas, it's all a big bluff. The 'holocaust' fraud is the quintessential 'Big Lie'.

Here we see Muehlenkamp debunked by Revisionist scholar, Thomas Kues. Kues puts to good use Nuremberg document NO-482 in
demonstrating that Sobibor was a transit camp, certainly not the laughable "death camp" as alleged by profit minded Zionists.

A must read here for those desire truth in history.

- Hannover

http://codoh.com/library/document/4478/?lang=en
Lies and obfuscations about Himmler's Sobibor directive
By Thomas Kues

excerpts:
To summarize: On 5 July 1943 Himmler ordered that the "Sobibór transit camp" was to be converted into a concentration camp equipped with a dismantling unit for captured enemy munitions. On 15 July Pohl on behalf of himself and Globocnik wrote to Himmler, recommending that said conversion be abandoned, as the installation of the dismantling unit could be achieved without it. Finally on 24 July Brandt wrote and confirmed that Himmler agreed with the proposal.
It is clear as day from even a cursory glance at these letters that Pohl and Globocnik did not "convince" Himmler "to make Sobibor into a 'transit camp'". In fact it was the other way around: the camp was designated a transit camp (Durchgangslager) at the time Himmler wrote his directive.

To conclude:
The presence of 600-700 Jewish inmates in Sobibór fits perfectly well with the transit camp hypothesis, as there was certainly enough work for them all of them to carry out. Roberto Muehlenkamp's "argument" regarding the letters of NO-482 is therefore devoid of any value: the number of inmates at Sobibór throws no doubt on Himmler's, Pohl's and Brandt's designation of Sobibór as a "transit camp" (Durchgangslager). Their use of that designation is fully congruent with the state of evidence, which allows for only one conclusion: that Sobibór indeed was a transit camp. There is a good reason why Black, Arad, Hilberg and Muehlenkamp have felt compelled to meet the contents of NO-482 with lies and obfuscations.

Before he bothered to write this helplessly flawed criticism Mr. Muehlenkamp should moreover have recalled a truism well-known to all those knowledgable about the socio-economics and technologies of Ancient Rome and Egypt: When slave labor is available in (virtually) unlimited amounts, efficient utilization of said manpower is not a pressing issue.

- Hannover

"Alone the fact that one may not question the Jewish "holocaust" and that Jewish pressure has inflicted laws on democratic societies to prevent questions—while incessant promotion and indoctrination of the same averredly incontestable ‘holocaust’ occur—gives the game away. It proves that it must be a lie. Why else would one not be allowed to question it? Because it might offend the "survivors"? Because it "dishonors the dead"? Hardly sufficient reason to outlaw discussion. No, because the exposure of this leading lie might precipitate questions about so many other lies and cause the whole ramshackle fabrication to crumble."

- Gerard Menuhin / righteous Revisionist Jew, son of famous violinist
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: Roberto Muehlenkamp debunked on Sobibor again, this time by Thomas Kues.

Postby georgesmiley » 2 years 4 months ago (Mon Jul 31, 2017 7:40 am)

What is the evidence that Muhlenkamp is a zionist? I know he supports the official hoax narrative. Many anti NSDAP types also do this but they also are critical of the "Jewish State" regarding its treatment of the palestinians.

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Re: Roberto Muehlenkamp debunked on Sobibor again, this time by Thomas Kues.

Postby borjastick » 2 years 4 months ago (Mon Jul 31, 2017 9:29 am)

georgesmiley wrote:What is the evidence that Muhlenkamp is a zionist? I know he supports the official hoax narrative. Many anti NSDAP types also do this but they also are critical of the "Jewish State" regarding its treatment of the palestinians.


My answer is as follows;

1- My experience is that those who actively promote the holocaust narrative, especially like Roberto who is academically gifted, are zionist supporters.
2- Those who support the hoax in spite of overwhelming evidence to the contrary are doing so partly to avert or debase criticism of the jewish state.
3- Those who dislike israel intensely sometimes still believe the holocaust hoax and will not entertain doubt in the matter, however, these people, like one of my commie neighbours, are very few and far between. Does Roberto support the BDS movement or enthusiastically buy israeli goods? Personally I never knowingly buy anything from israel unless I have no alternative, which is most rare these days.
'Of the four million Jews under Nazi control in WW2, six million died and alas only five million survived.'

'We don't need evidence, we have survivors' - israeli politician

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Re: Roberto Muehlenkamp debunked on Sobibor again, this time by Thomas Kues.

Postby Revisionist » 2 years 4 months ago (Mon Jul 31, 2017 6:49 pm)

Then there is the indisputable fact that a large number of Jews died at Sobibór. These Jews perished en route due to various causes, died from illness in the camp, were executed as reprisal for escape attempts, or were subjected to "euthanasia" (likely utilizing lethal injections, possibly also through shooting) as mentally ill or carriers of epidemic diseases (categories of Jews that the German authorities certainly did not want to have resettled in the east). The total number of deaths at Sobibór might have amounted to some 10,000.


Where are the remains?

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Re: Roberto Muehlenkamp debunked on Sobibor again, this time by Thomas Kues.

Postby Lothario » 2 years 4 months ago (Tue Aug 01, 2017 9:11 am)

borjastick wrote:
georgesmiley wrote:What is the evidence that Muhlenkamp is a zionist? I know he supports the official hoax narrative. Many anti NSDAP types also do this but they also are critical of the "Jewish State" regarding its treatment of the palestinians.


My answer is as follows;

1- My experience is that those who actively promote the holocaust narrative, especially like Roberto who is academically gifted, are zionist supporters.
2- Those who support the hoax in spite of overwhelming evidence to the contrary are doing so partly to avert or debase criticism of the jewish state.
3- Those who dislike israel intensely sometimes still believe the holocaust hoax and will not entertain doubt in the matter, however, these people, like one of my commie neighbours, are very few and far between. Does Roberto support the BDS movement or enthusiastically buy israeli goods? Personally I never knowingly buy anything from israel unless I have no alternative, which is most rare these days.


So you have no evidence. You just relate to personal experience with other people to make unsubstantiated claims about Muehlenkamp. Let me be clear, I don't agree with Muehlenkamp on the holocaust, but that doesn't mean I think it is justified to call him a Zionist without sufficient proof, like him admitting it or expressing obvious Zionist views. We are debating a scientific issue. It doesn't matter if the arguments come from a zionist, a communist or a racist, arguments should be judged on their merits.

In addition, being a National-Socialist and/or revisionist and being a Zionist are not mutual excluding stances. As a National-Socialist wants all jews banished (like most revisionists agree was the real 'Final Solution'), he doesn't really care about where they go. Could be Madagscar, could be Palestine. So some indeed argue Hitler himself was a Zionist (viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11058&p=83104&hilit=h).
They are afraid of words and thoughts; words spoken abroad, thoughts stirring at home — all the more powerful because forbidden — terrify them ... They make frantic efforts to bar our thoughts and words; they are afraid of the workings of the human mind

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Re: Roberto Muehlenkamp debunked on Sobibor again, this time by Thomas Kues.

Postby borjastick » 2 years 4 months ago (Tue Aug 01, 2017 10:23 am)

Lothario said -
So you have no evidence. You just relate to personal experience with other people to make unsubstantiated claims about Muehlenkamp. Let me be clear, I don't agree with Muehlenkamp on the holocaust, but that doesn't mean I think it is justified to call him a Zionist without sufficient proof, like him admitting it or expressing obvious Zionist views. We are debating a scientific issue. It doesn't matter if the arguments come from a zionist, a communist or a racist, arguments should be judged on their merits.

In addition, being a National-Socialist and/or revisionist and being a Zionist are not mutual excluding stances. As a National-Socialist wants all jews banished (like most revisionists agree was the real 'Final Solution'), he doesn't really care about where they go. Could be Madagscar, could be Palestine. So some indeed argue Hitler himself was a Zionist ( viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11058&p=83104&hilit=h ).


People here are probably, just probably, in the main, either anti-zionists or have severe doubts about the way israel acts and its intentions. That's my unsubstantiated guesswork. Maybe those who are prepared to stand up will answer this point in subsequent comments.

Roberto probably doesn't want to publicly come out in support of zionism because it would somewhat obscure his independent view on the holocaust.

In the absence of solid evidence that he and most other holocaust believers and promoters are not zionists I'll go with my gut feel and based on several decades of experience in such matters. You can swing whichever way you like.
'Of the four million Jews under Nazi control in WW2, six million died and alas only five million survived.'

'We don't need evidence, we have survivors' - israeli politician

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Re: Roberto Muehlenkamp debunked on Sobibor again, this time by Thomas Kues.

Postby CWhite » 2 years 4 months ago (Tue Aug 01, 2017 10:40 am)

Revisionist wrote:
Then there is the indisputable fact that a large number of Jews died at Sobibór. These Jews perished en route due to various causes, died from illness in the camp, were executed as reprisal for escape attempts, or were subjected to "euthanasia" (likely utilizing lethal injections, possibly also through shooting) as mentally ill or carriers of epidemic diseases (categories of Jews that the German authorities certainly did not want to have resettled in the east). The total number of deaths at Sobibór might have amounted to some 10,000.


Where are the remains?


Just to clarify the quote Revisionist posted above.

It is a direct quote made by Thomas Kues in the article cited in the OP:

http://codoh.com/library/document/4478/?lang=en

"Undisputable"?

:lol:

"Lethal injections"?

:lol:

"deaths at Sobibór might have amounted to some 10,000."

:lol:

So Kues believes that there actually was a Sobibor holocaust, just a slightly different one and with fewer deaths than Muehlenkamp's version.

Kues has no more substantiated his allegations than has Muehlenkamp.

Using a holocaust light argument to counter the orthodox holocaust myth is absurd.

I wouldn't be surprised if Kues believes that there was a brain-bashing machine at Sobibor.
Last edited by CWhite on Tue Aug 01, 2017 10:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Roberto Muehlenkamp debunked on Sobibor again, this time by Thomas Kues.

Postby CWhite » 2 years 4 months ago (Tue Aug 01, 2017 10:48 am)

A simple question for Thomas Kues:

The number of jews that you can prove - with the same standard of proof that "revisionists" expect form exterminationists - that died while en route to or while interned at Sobibór, is no less than __?__.

Remember, Kues' allegations have been no more substantiated than Muehlenkamp's.

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Re: Roberto Muehlenkamp debunked on Sobibor again, this time by Thomas Kues.

Postby borjastick » 2 years 4 months ago (Tue Aug 01, 2017 11:18 am)

Using a holocaust light argument to counter the orthodox holocaust myth is absurd.
- CWhite

It's not absurd it's common sense. He's not saying it was a smaller holocaust but a holocaust nonetheless, he's saying that in life people die, and they do. In you nearest city today some people died, that's a fact that I cannot prove sitting here right now but a fact it is. They died from car accidents, old age, cancer, and other causes. That's life.

In the transports east of many hundreds of thousands of jews they would have been stressed and very very frightened. So there is good reason to believe Kues and Thomas Dalton where in Debating the Holocaust he said a similar thing. People die and the more stressed they are the higher likelihood there is of a higher death rate, though it is of course not a mini holocaust.
'Of the four million Jews under Nazi control in WW2, six million died and alas only five million survived.'

'We don't need evidence, we have survivors' - israeli politician


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