Carlo Mattogno demolishes Roberto 'sardine pack' Muehlenkamp & those like him.

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Carlo Mattogno demolishes Roberto 'sardine pack' Muehlenkamp & those like him.

Postby Hannover » 3 years 2 months ago (Sat Aug 19, 2017 8:31 pm)

I refer to Zionist Jew Roberto's attempt to buttress a certain Patrick Desbois' utterly refuted claims of finding 'mass graves', which Desbois certainly did not and will not find.

Patrick Desbois and the "Mass Graves" of Jews in Ukraine
Carlo Mattogno

also covered here:

The brave & undaunted Italian scholar, Carlo Mattogno, hit's the nail on the head when debunking Roberto and those like him who laughably allege that Jews were buried in a 'sardine pack' manner. Seriously, unhinged Zionists like Roberto Muehlenkamp actually say that.

Hey, Revisionists are just the messengers here.

This is a good example of how the 'holocau$t' liars cannot keep their lies straight.

Shyster and profiteer Desbois will say one thing while bunglers like Roberto Muehlenkamp will say another.

All of that on top of the fact that they cannot produce & show actual, verifiable, & visible excavations with the alleged contents of countless Jew corpses that they claim exist in enormous mass graves .... that they claim to know the exact locations of.
That, ladies & gentlemen, is the very essence of fraud.

The enormous mass murders they allege simply did not happen, otherwise we'd be seeing excavations & the alleged contents 24/7.

- Hannover

Here we go, from
Mattogno says:
A bit of a digression here: an Internet site known as Holocaust Controversies, where the principal prize-winner for obtuseness and bad faith is a certain Roberto Muehlenkamp 12, a member of the site's resident Holocaust "affirmer" crew adduces this testimony as a "concordant proof" of the "method of killing" employed by the commandants of the SS Einsatzgruppen and Police in the Ukraine. 13

The "stamping" method (p. 100) is said to confirm that of "Sardinenpackung," or sardine packing, said to have been practiced by Friedrich Jeckeln, Höherer SS- und Polizeiführer with the German Army Group South in Russia, and vice versa. Evidence of these claims is said to be provided by two sources explaining exactly what "sardine packing" consists of. The first says that the victims

"were forced to undress and to lie face-down in layers in the graves, after which they received a bullet in the back of the neck. Another layer of victims [sic!] were then forced to lie face-down on top of the layer which had just been killed [sic!] and were then shot; the procedure continued until the grave was filled."14

The second source repeats the same story, but adds that "they used Russian machine guns because the belt held fifty bullets and they could select semi-automatic fire," which is also included as falling into the definition of "sardine packing."15

In this way, the Holocaust Controversies Internet site fails to note that this contradicts one of the cardinal assertions underlying Desbois's investigations, as we shall soon see (in § 9): the alleged incriminating implications of the German cartridge casings found by the said Desbois.

It is odd that the "method" in question did not enlist the labor of the Jewish victims themselves, and that not even the Jews forced to lie down on top of the layer of bodies to be shot in turn were compelled to "stamp" on the bodies forming the underlying layer.

It might be added that if "sardine packing" were really a "method," it should have been in general use throughout the Ukraine; but not a single one of Desbois's witnesses even mentions it; on the contrary, some of the witnesses openly contradict it. For example, Stanislav claims that the victims were killed "on their knees in front of the graves, facing forward, towards the grave" (p. 224). Nikolaj Olkhuski declared that the Germans "all shot at the same time" (p. 94) at the Jewish victims on the edge of the grave, who then fell into the ditch, some of them still alive (pp. 94-95). The same method is confirmed by Ivan Fedossievich Lichnitski, according to whom, in the ditch, a group of Jews "were forced to distribute the Jews lengthwise, covering the entire breadth of the grave" (p. 173), precisely because they had been shot at the edge of the ditch.

Thus, precisely and solely this method justifies the folk legend, referred to by many witnesses, of the mass graves covered by dirt which moved for three days, because the victims were buried alive (p. 81, 109, 175, 274), with the variants of two days (p. 187), or four days (p. 267); or of the use of a "well" instead of a mass grave (p. 263), evidence of extraordinary vitality on the part of the victims, to say the least: buried alive, three days below ground, without air, after being deliberately "stamped" on, like grapes in a wine vat! If to this be added the shot in the back of the neck inflicted upon every single victim, buried alive in mass graves, for three days, only zombies would be capable of such movement.

The witness Maria, by contrast, asserts:

"No, they didn't shoot them one by one, but with bursts of sub-machine-gun fire. They didn't use rifles, but sub-machine guns" (p. 205).

Another refutation of the "sardine packing” method.

To conclude our review of the imaginative anecdotes reported by Desbois, the witness Evgenja Nazarenko, in 1943, at age 9, is said to have been abandoned, alone, by her mother, near an execution site at Busk , in the province of Leopoli[16], to allow her (the mother) to see whether or not her husband, the child's father, would also be shot, thus risking the life of the little girl (pp. 218, 241, 246).

And what can one say about the stories of Jews walled up alive (pp. 266-267) or suffocated with "Eiderdowns," i.e., feather-bed quilts [sic!]"? Desbois even entitles the paragraphs in question “The Shoah by Suffocation”! (p. 267).

No testimony is nonsensical enough to be rejected by the good priest, and certainly never as, well, not as an outright fairy tale (borrowing the priest's attitude of "Christian charity" for a moment), but at least as dubious or suspicious-sounding.

Everything his decrepit ex-child "witnesses" tell him sixty years later is sacrosanct Truth, like the Gospels (or the Talmud).

[In conclusion, Mattogno exposes the massive amounts of money that shyster Desbois has received for his con job.]:
Desbois describes his financiers as follows:

We have received enormous support from various organizations, particularly the Foundation for the Memory of the Shoah, and from Madame Veil, who ensured that we became well-known to the media, as well as by other foundations and personages, in the Christian world as well. Nevertheless, we had to be really active to make ends meet, because whether or not we find the bodies will depend upon our financial situation. We were thus compelled to carry on an active search for funds to raise the funds, since the entire organization is completely transparent (emphasis added).[56]

In other words, the more deaths, the more money. And the more deaths, the more notoriety. Which, based on the pretense that indicating the location of a few alleged mass graves [on a map] is equivalent to "the discovery of mass graves" and, therefore, proof of mass murder. Desbois vividly describes his public appearances exhibiting his "discoveries." He appeared "before representatives from the Claims Conference" at New York (p. 122) and at the Holocaust Museum at Washington, D.C. (p. 123). In this regard, very modestly, he comments:

At these meetings, before all our researchers, I realized the significance of my discoveries to the history of the Shoah. One after the other, they listed, with all their erudite language, what I had discovered on the camp. Meetings like this helped me become aware of the importance of my work. It became clear to me that I could no longer proceed merely empirically, no matter how useful that might be. My methods had to be more "professional" (p. 125).

Desbois then describes the manner in which he received the praise of German researchers at Munich (p. 126), as well as Israeli praise at the Yad Vashem Memorial (p. 126) and French praise at the Shoah Memorial at Paris (pp. 126-127). We are not informed as to whether the notoriety goes solely to the Ukrainian procurers of (alleged) mass graves. And the same could be said of Desbois's relations with the Holocaust Museum in Washington D.C. , which, in its 2007 annual report, reports that Desbois has "identified 700 graves and execution sites" and that it "estimates that more than 2,000 exist [but] have never been found."[57]

It may be a "sin to think evil," but there is no doubt that the alleged 1,300 alleged "sites still awaiting discovery" represent the promise of renewed financing and notoriety for Desbois.[58]
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: Carlo Mattogno demolishes Roberto 'sardine pack' Muehlenkamp & those like him.

Postby borjastick » 3 years 2 months ago (Sun Aug 20, 2017 2:28 am)

I remember reading about the 'sardine packing' method first of all in Rhodes' Masters of Death. i thought it completely stupid then and still do.

Also notice in the statement about the method the gun used was a belt fed hand held machine gun. A quick look through several web sites concerning Russian weapons of WW2 shows no such gun. Belt guns typically are for use by a two man team on a stand or tripod. They use a larger round which would tend to blow someone's head off at short range. They also use a belt box to store the ammo which typically would be of 200++ rounds.

The only standard issue sub machine gun which had a larger magazine capacity was the PPSh-41. This came with a normal magazine and a drum type mag which had a belt inside it to feed the rounds. None of the above matches what is claimed in the statement.
'Of the four million Jews under Nazi control in WW2, six million died and alas only five million survived.'

'We don't need evidence, we have survivors' - israeli politician

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