Challenge to supporters of the "transit camp" theory

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CWhite
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Re: Challenge to supporters of the "transit camp" theory

Postby CWhite » 2 years 2 months ago (Thu Jul 27, 2017 12:38 pm)

So let's take a look at some of Roberto's answers to some questions:

#11 - Has it ever been claimed / alleged / insinuated in orthodox historiography and/or the media that; legitimate archaeologists / forensic investigators have located / proven the existence of numerous discernable / measurable extant mass graves within the boundaries of each of the Belzec, Chelmno, Sobibor and Treblinka II camps - Yes. - or - No. - ??

Roberto's - Yes. - or - No. - answer: Yes.

#12 - Is it reasonable to doubt that; legitimate archaeologists / forensic investigators have located / proven the existence of numerous discernable / measurable extant mass graves within the boundaries of each of the Belzec, Chelmno, Sobibor and Treblinka II camps - Yes. - or - No. - ??

Roberto's - Yes. - or - No. - answer: No.

Is it known - beyond reasonable doubt - that; legitimate archaeologists / forensic investigators have actually located / proven the existence of numerous discernable / measurable extant mass graves within the boundaries of each of the Belzec, Chelmno, Sobibor and Treblinka II camps - Yes. - or - No. - ??

Roberto's answer: Yes.

...

And this admission that poor confused Roberto let slip:

Roberto:

Now, as to the "standard of proof applied in U.S. criminal courts" (which is "beyond reasonable doubt"), does that require proof of mass murder on hand of mass graves that "have actually been located / proven to exist in which legitimate archaeologists / forensic investigators have, via bona fide, verifiably honest and conclusively documented methodology - literally unearthed the remains", especially when there's conclusive eyewitness and documentary evidence and what physical evidence has been unearthed or otherwise discovered does not contradict either?


Hey poor confused Roberto, when you say that "physical evidence has been unearthed" - is that human remains brought to the surface via core drills that you're talking about - Yes. - or - No. - ??

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Re: Challenge to supporters of the "transit camp" theory

Postby CWhite » 2 years 2 months ago (Thu Jul 27, 2017 12:46 pm)

Hey poor confused Robeto, please look at this photo showing two "huge mass graves" that were excavated at Sobibor (they are two of the 16 discernable / measurable extant mass graves that you admitted were located / proven to exist within the boundary of Sobibor by legitimate archaeologists / forensic investigators)

Image

And then answer this simple question:

#47 - The MAXIMUM number of the 16 claimed / alleged / insinuated - discernable / measurable extant graves of Sobibor identified by The N.A.F.H. that you can currently prove - with the same standard of proof applied in U.S. criminal courts - that have actually been located / proven to exist in which legitimate archaeologists / forensic investigators have, via bona fide, verifiably honest and conclusively documented methodology - literally unearthed scientifically verified human remains; is no less than __?__.


Notice here that poor cornered, cowed and confused Roberto admits:

No, what's interesting is the flagrant dishonesty of who counts as Sobibór "graves" even shallow pits containing only a few corpses (which need not even have been related to the extermination camp period), when we're talking about mass graves here.


Please notice that question #47 is concerned only with the number of graves that have any human remains in them, not how much.

Put poor cornered, cowed and confused Roberto is in panic mode, and is dodging and lying in a desperate attempt to get out of his corner that Mr. Gerdes has driven him into.
Last edited by CWhite on Thu Jul 27, 2017 1:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Challenge to supporters of the "transit camp" theory

Postby CWhite » 2 years 2 months ago (Thu Jul 27, 2017 12:50 pm)

Roberto (after being cornered by Mr. Gerdes)

Only if you can prove that "literally unearthed" remains are not the only let alone indispensable evidence to prove a mass crime. Which you can't... did I ever say anything about "literally unearthed" remains quantified after having been "literally unearthed",


Greg Gerdes wrote:

So you must have been lying when you submitted this:

http://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=15303

to Shermer for his endorsement.

Roberto:

Anything there about my estimate being based on a quantification of "literally unearthed" remains?



Notice how poor cornered, cowed and confused Roberto is trying to pretend that the issue is about "quantification of alleged "literally unearthed" remains" - not whether or not human remains were ever literally unearthed or not.

Oh, and from the link above:

Roberto:

the corpses found by Prof. Kola are still in the grave at the present moment.


So according to Roberto, Kola must have brought human remains to the surface - for how else could kola determine what his core samples contained?

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Re: Challenge to supporters of the "transit camp" theory

Postby CWhite » 2 years 2 months ago (Thu Jul 27, 2017 1:11 pm)

From "that other site:"

Greg Gerdes:

Roberto, can you tell us what we're looking at here:

Image

Roberto:

Shallow pits containing a few corpses


Roberto, would it be accurate to say that those two "Shallow pits containing a few corpses" are excavated graves- Yes. - or - No. - ??

:lol:

Poor Roberto, he's so lacking in courage, integrity and character that he cravenly refused to admit he was looking at two excavated graves.

:lol:

Hey Roberto, would you say that those two Sobibor graves have been "uncovered" - Yes. - or - No. - ??

Would you say that those two Sobibor graves were located / proven to exist by legitimate archaeologists / forensic investigators - Yes. - or - No. - ??

Would you say that the remains in those two Sobibor graves have been scientifically verified to be human remains - Yes. - or - No. - ??

Would you say that the remains in those two Sobibor graves have been verified via bona fide / honest / legitimate archaeologists / forensic investigators - Yes. - or - No. - ??

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Re: Challenge to supporters of the "transit camp" theory

Postby CWhite » 2 years 2 months ago (Thu Jul 27, 2017 1:29 pm)

:lol:

Mr. Gerdes is destroying poor Roberto!

Roberto:
Who called the "ash mound" [of Sobibor} a "huge mass grave"?


Greg Gerdes:

You mean other than you:

Roberto:

The conclusion that the mound in question is comprised of human ash is thus the conclusion that is borne out by all known evidence and belied by none. It is also the conclusion towards which various sources of evidence independent of each other converge. This convergence of various sources of evidence is proof that the mound in question is comprised of human ash. Proving that the mound of ash at the Sobibor memorial is actually comprised of human ash will be answered in an article that I shall try to get published in SKEPTIC magazine.


Well, there's Nessie for one:

Nessie:

At Sobibor so many remains were found scattered that a memorial was build to contain them.


:lol:

Poor Roberto.

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Re: Challenge to supporters of the "transit camp" theory

Postby CWhite » 2 years 2 months ago (Thu Jul 27, 2017 3:05 pm)

Roberto's latest lie:

The mass grave[s] [of Sobibor] have been identified by archaeological core drilling and partial excavations without one corpses having to be laid bare for this purpose... what's missing is the literal unearthing of corpses... To the extent that the mass graves contain whole corpses (at the bottom) as opposed to only cremation remains (core drilling at Belzec and Sobibór has shown the presence of such corpses), unearthing them would require excavating the mass graves to the bottom.


Ummm, Roberto, if these excavated corpses:


Image


haven't been "laid bare" / "literally unearthed" - then what would you say has happened to them?

Are you claiming Roberto, that those graves shown in the above photo, have not been excavated to the bottom - Yes. - or - No. - ??

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Re: Challenge to supporters of the "transit camp" theory

Postby CWhite » 2 years 2 months ago (Thu Jul 27, 2017 4:49 pm)

Lol - :lol:

Here's a blast from the past (VNN):

Roberto:

The graves I can prove that contain the remains of over 19 people are the ten Belzec graves and 4 Sobibór graves.


Only 4 out of 16 at Sobibor, huh Roberto?

:lol:

Only 10 out of 33 at Belzec, huh Roberto?

:lol:

So that's why you're called Roberto - 0 for 14 - Muehlenkamp!

:lol:

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Re: Challenge to supporters of the "transit camp" theory

Postby CWhite » 2 years 2 months ago (Fri Jul 28, 2017 9:10 am)

I forgot to add an update for those keeping score at home.

So knowing what we now know about Roberto's ever changing unsubstantiated allegations of how many of Sobibor's phantom "huge mass graves" he can prove contain the remains of at least 19 people, he has gone from 4 up to 16 then down to 8 and then back up to 12!

What's your number today Roberto?

:lol:

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Re: Challenge to supporters of the "transit camp" theory

Postby Metal Murphy » 2 years 2 months ago (Wed Aug 02, 2017 9:19 am)

LOL, you are really tying that believer up in knots!!!!

I'm really skeptical of his ability to come back after that!!!

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Re: Challenge to supporters of the "transit camp" theory

Postby CWhite » 2 years 2 months ago (Wed Aug 02, 2017 11:13 am)

From another site:

Roberto, are you willing to bet - $1,000.00 - that it can be proven - with the same standard of proof applied in U.S. criminal courts - that at least one Jew who was transited to Treblinka II - can logically be proven to have gone elsewhere - Yes. - or - No. - ??


Roberto:

I would say "no", as there are definitely Jews transited to Treblinka II who went elsewhere afterwards...

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RE: Challenge to supporters of the "transit camp" theory

Postby Elroy » 2 years 1 month ago (Fri Sep 08, 2017 10:49 pm)

[moved to this thread by M1, 9/8/17, PM]

In order to present an overview of the topic raised by Zionist industry spokesman Meulenkampf, one should put the picture in full view.

Regardless of the argument "where did they go", if they weren't transited, they were killed argument put forth by Roberto and co is fraudulent on the following points..

1. Revisionists have proven beyond any reasonable doubt by incontrivertible evidence that the prisoners were demonstrably NOT killed on the grounds of or around Treblinka.

2. On those grounds, the burden of proof becomes not on the revisionists to show what happened to them, but on the Industry, in this case Roberto, to show what happened if he wants to prove murder. So far to that end. Nothing. Nothing other than attempting to rehash the standard narrative of their murder against unsurmountable evidence.

3. There is the "possibility" that based on nothing but their train records of arrival and little records of leaving, without any single witness or document other than the Hoefle/Korrher conflagration, that they were still killed "elsewhere" other than Treblinka.

4. By "necessity" this highly implausible scenario sans any evidence itself demonstrates Treblinka II as a "transit camp", even if they were shipped off and later killed elsewhere.

5. The existence of transit camps elsewhere in the Reich is proven and not denied. The process of transit of prisoners around to other camps is also proven and not denied amongst the camp system in general.

6. Even though the burden of proof IS on Roberto and co to prove they were murdered as to which they have made zero ground, for the obvious reason that it's a lie- there is much value for the Revisionists doing the work for them to prove the opposite, that they were transited and not murdered.

7. Eric Hunt's film "Jewish Gas Chamber Myth" seems to show numerous prisoners transited through the camp to other camps and some to Minsk which is East and which satisfy Roberto's challenge yes or no?

8. I have read here that there are evidences of verifiably transited Jews quoting being on trains of hundreds or so others, yes or no?

9. I have read here that there are evidences of verifiably transited Jews being in Belarus etc in Eastern territories. Yes or no? And further such evidence for up to 10,000 transitees, is this correct yes or no?

10. Based on the above is not Roberto's challenge as it was framed in effect already met and beaten yes or no?

11. We can see clearly that the Soviet Union conquered steadily all of the territory right through to Germany by wars end. We know at that time Stalin adopted pro-Zionist policy. We can see circumstantial evidence that the "holocausted jews" in fact emigrated changing their names. The emigration path would be from Poland/Soviet Union to further East in the Soviet Union, settling within Poland and the Soviet Union itself under change of name or alleged change of religion and/or other details obscuring their identities, and of course to Israel.

12. In the case of emigration to Israel, this work would have involved a cooperation between the Soviet government and the fledgeling Israeli government and a zionist network. Something entirely plausible. Are there any witness statements that serve this end?

13. What are the chances of their being archival evidence of such activities of emigration or status change if remaining in situ? And if there is, what are the difficulties encountered obtaining such documents by revisionists?

14. Population statistics certainly show that such a situation is surmised strongly even in absence of such information proving transit, and backed by the transit information we already do have to relieve little doubt.

15.The propensity for the Israeli and the Soviet state to lie is beyond question as much as Muelenkampf and the whole H-myth industry is showing clear pretext.

16. IS their any evidence already from archives of such information being removed?

17. What is the status of the train records showing the number of prisoners sent to Treblinka II? Some have allegedly argued that less than that number were even sent there to begin with. What is the evidence for this? Are there some "train records" themselves that are provably fraudulent?

Could knowledgable revisionists please comment and add evidence for the above points which summarise the revisionist efforts to fill in all the gaps on what otherwise can be surmised to be the truth, and on those points which show Roberto's allegations to be mere clap trap.

The Reinhardt Operation part of the orthodox narrative is BY FAR the most insane part of the lie. How it continues to be alleged as fact, and Auschwitz, the less insane part of the lie "relatively speaking" that is, is all but dropped now, even by holocaust believers, is perplexing.

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Re: Challenge to supporters of the "transit camp" theory

Postby Moderator » 2 years 1 month ago (Sat Sep 09, 2017 12:33 am)

Elroy:
I moved your post above to this thread, perhaps you didn't see this thread. Please review posts in this thread for some answers to your questions.
Also note the challenges made to Roberto that have heretofore been dodged.
Thanks, M1
Only lies need to be shielded from debate, truth welcomes it.

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Re: Challenge to supporters of the "transit camp" theory

Postby borjastick » 2 years 1 month ago (Sat Sep 09, 2017 1:07 am)

Here is number 12 of many good points made by Elroy
12. In the case of emigration to Israel, this work would have involved a cooperation between the Soviet government and the fledgeling Israeli government and a zionist network. Something entirely plausible. Are there any witness statements that serve this end?


At the risk of repeating info that older readers/members will already know I have direct witness experience of this very point.

My father was in the British army between 1944 and end of 1947. He served in an infantry regiment which was directly posted first to Alexandria, arriving from Italy by boat, then across the the Suez canal and then on to Palestine. His unit was in Jerusalem for a short while but then moved to Netanya on the coast near to Tel Aviv, where he stayed for nearly a year. His main duty was to manage the immigrants arriving from Europe by the boatload.

One of his abiding memories is that every day he and his colleagues would patrol the docks and beach areas and every day they would look out on a sea full of boats and ships arriving in Palestine to disgorge their cargo of...European Jews. The same view greeted my dad every day for many many months. Same view but different ships. Every arrivee was supposed to be registered and paperworked but they simply couldn't cope, such were the numbers.

By 1947 the numbers of jews arriving and already there were enormous, backed up by the already well organised and very violent jewish terror groups such as the Stern Gang and Irgun Leumi - King David Hotel and then Deir Yassin anyone???

If all the jews of europe had been holocausted and captured and unable to travel due to sickness and being confined in the camps after the war, who were all these hundreds of thousands of jews coming in daily on hundreds of cargo ships?
'Of the four million Jews under Nazi control in WW2, six million died and alas only five million survived.'

'We don't need evidence, we have survivors' - israeli politician

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Re: RE: Challenge to supporters of the "transit camp" theory

Postby Hannover » 2 years 1 month ago (Sat Sep 09, 2017 12:37 pm)

Elroy, I'll address your posted list.

1. Yes.
There are no excavated mass graves and their contents to review even though it's claimed that they exist in supposedly known locations.
Remember, the alleged '6M Jews & 5M others' cannot just disappear. One example: Recall the alleged 900,000 Jews allegedly buried at Treblinka.
Yett they are not there otherwise we'd b seeing them 24/7.
See earlier posts.

2. Those like Roberto Muehlenkamp are actually saying:

'All those at football game were murdered'.
Someone replies, :
'No, they left the stadium'.
Roberto then says:
'Then show me where they all went.' :lol:

See earlier posts

3. The outbound train records which were kept by the German have been removed / hidden away.
For the Germans to leave the inbound records intact but 'destroy the outbound records' makes no sense.

The Hoefle & Korherr documents say nothing about 'exterminating' Jews. Nothing.

However the Schlegelberger Document and the Luther Memo tell it like it was:
http://www.fpp.co.uk/Himmler/Schlegelbe ... rger42.JPG
"Mr Reich Minister Lammers informed me that the Führer had repeatedly declared to him that he wants to hear that the Solution of the Jewish Problem has been postponed until after the war is over. That being so, the current discussions are of purely theoretical value, in Mr Reich Minister Lammers' opinion. He will moreover take pains to ensure that, whatever else happens, no fundamental decisions are taken without his knowledge in consequence of a surprise briefing by any third party."


Document's origins. Schlegelberger's undated minute on Lammer's reference to Hitler's ruling is in German Federal Archives (BA) file R.22/52. It was sent to Staatssekretär Freisler and two other officials (bottom left). This document has been published in facsimile in David Irving's books Hitler's War, Goebbels. Mastermind of the Third Reich, and Nuremberg, the Last Battle. It was definitely dated March or April 1942. Lammers was in Berlin on April 26, 1942. See Scheel's report on a talk between Lammers and Meissner after the final Reichstag session that day (T175/139/7479 et seq.)

In support of the Schlegelberger Document see the Luther Memorandum:
http://www.codoh.com/library/document/154/
Hitler, the 'Final Solution,' and the Luther Memorandum
A Response to Evans and Longerich
excerpt:
"On the occasion of a reception by the Reich Foreign Minister on 26 November 1941 the Bulgarian Foreign Minister Popoff touched on the problem of according like treatment to the Jews of European nationalities and pointed out the difficulties that the Bulgarians had in the application of their Jewish laws to Jews of foreign nationality."

"The Reich Foreign Minister answered that he thought this question brought by Mr. Popoff not uninteresting. Even now he could say one thing to him, that at the end of the war all Jews would have to leave Europe. This was the unalterable decision of the Fuehrer and also the only way to master this problem, as only a global and comprehensive solution could be applied and individual measures would not help very much."

See earlier posts.
Will follow with the rest of your list.

Regards, Hannover

Revisionists are just the messengers, the absurd impossibility of the laughable 'holocaust' storyline is the message.
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.


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