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forasanerworld
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Contributing to public platforms

Postby forasanerworld » 4 months 1 week ago (Sun Jun 09, 2019 2:20 pm)

Clearly the first, second, and third rules must be respect and sensitivity.

On Quora someone asked

“How long after WWII did it take for the world to truly grasp just how bad the Jewish Holocaust truly was?”

I replied:

We still are assessing it; take two examples, Majdanek and Auschwitz camps.

Majdanek Majdanek concentration camp - Wikipedia
The initial Soviet claim was 1.7 million (of which 400,000 jewish) , the official figure entered into the record at the IMT was 1.5, then it was discovered that the camp had only ever had 300,000 inmates and the camp authority reduced the figure to 284,000.

According to the Majdanek Museum website in March 2007, the total number of prisoners sent to the camp was estimated to be around 150,000, of which approximately 80,000 died, including around 60,000 Jews although the 2005 research by the Head of Scientific Department at Majdanek historian Tomasz Kranz indicated that there were 79,000 victims, 59,000 of whom were Jews.

The work of Germar Rudolph which saw him prosecuted twice and jailed for writings that estimated higher numbers than Kranz.

Auschwitz Auschwitz concentration camp - Wikipedia

The original Soviet claim was circa 4 million, subsequently adjusted downward :

“A larger study in the late 1980s by Franciszek Piper, published by Yad Vashem in 1991, used timetables of train arrivals combined with deportation records to calculate that, of the 1.3 million deported to the camp, 1,082,000 died there between 1940 and 1945, a figure (rounded up to 1.1 million) that he regarded as a minimum and that came to be widely accepted”

We must continue to hope and pray that a pejorative and invective free atmosphere of open mindedness into new research will allow us to properly commemorate those who lost their lives and be thankful for those who did not.

I haven't submitted this yet, it's still in draft, comments please before I do.

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Re: Contributing to public platforms

Postby flimflam » 4 months 1 week ago (Mon Jun 10, 2019 1:38 pm)

I suggest: stick to facts and try to document everything, preferably with pictures. Also, there are many holohoax questions on Quora, so you'll get lots of chances to post information (until you are banned, of course :) )

You can document the original Auschwitz 4 mill death toll with this pic
Image
The revised 1.5 mill with this pic,
Image
Then you can discuss why the number was changed, that was because the Soviets had captured and hidden the Nazi Auschwitz records, and revealed them following glasnost. The records you can document with this pic...
Image
They are discussed here ...http://auschwitz.org/en/museum/about-th ... erbebucher
Now the USHMM estimates that the total number of prisoners transferred to Auschwitz was 1.3 mill, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auschwitz ... ation_camp

The history of the Majdanek death tolls is given in this graph ...
Image
See also ....https://www.quora.com/What-evidence-are ... l-based-on

You can also note that there are were only six 'death camps', and the only ones standing at the end of the war were Auschwitz and Majdanek, and also that the hoax has collapsed at Majdanek .... https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/killing-centers-an-overview
Though many scholars have traditionally counted the Majdanek camp as a sixth killing center, recent research had shed more light on the functions and operations at Lublin/Majdanek.


You can also point out that the camp records captured by the US/Brits were hidden from independent researchers until 2013 https://booksandideas.net/Opening-the-N ... t-Bad.html

Hoping a praying for an invective free atmosphere, etc., is wasted verbiage IMO, and better omitted.

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Re: Contributing to public platforms

Postby forasanerworld » 3 months 3 weeks ago (Tue Jun 25, 2019 4:13 pm)

Thanks to flimflam for all of that; point taken about the "verbiage"; having already been on the naughty step once (permanently by The Guardian too) I put it in precisely to demonstrate "neutrality" and hopefully avoid being cast into the outer darkness.

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Re: Contributing to public platforms

Postby Rogal Dorn » 3 months 3 weeks ago (Wed Jun 26, 2019 9:56 am)

forasanerworld wrote:The work of Germar Rudolph which saw him prosecuted twice and jailed for writings that estimated higher numbers than Kranz.


Can I see the source for this? That Germar Rudolf estimated a higher death toll for Majdanek?

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Re: Contributing to public platforms

Postby forasanerworld » 3 months 3 weeks ago (Thu Jun 27, 2019 3:23 am)

Rogal Dorn wrote:
forasanerworld wrote:The work of Germar Rudolph which saw him prosecuted twice and jailed for writings that estimated higher numbers than Kranz.


Can I see the source for this? That Germar Rudolf estimated a higher death toll for Majdanek?


Yes, I'm aware of that and in fact saw posted somewhere (it might even have been in a CODOH thread) astonishment posing the question "So can someone please explain to me why Germar Rudolph is still in prison", absurdly the last trial seems to post date the revised Kranz figures which is surely absurd.

As for a source, nothing special, just wiki and on this occasssion I am prepared to believe them but it is the official figure https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Majdanek_concentration_camp#Death_toll

There is also this earlier CODOH thread https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=7045

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Re: Contributing to public platforms

Postby Horhug » 3 months 2 weeks ago (Sat Jun 29, 2019 3:53 pm)

The Quora question : “How long after WWII did it take for the world to truly grasp just how bad the Jewish Holocaust truly was?”

Can be answered by pointing out the fact that various people had foreknowledge of "just how bad the Jewish Holocaust truly would be", dating back to the 1800's ...

The First Holocaust: The Surprising Origin of the Six-Million Figure
https://codoh.com/library/document/4089/

Holocaust Handbooks, Volume 6:
Don Heddesheimer: The First Holocaust—The Surprising Origin of the Six-Million Figure
http://holocausthandbooks.com/index.php?page_id=6

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Re: Contributing to public platforms

Postby Zulu » 3 months 2 weeks ago (Sun Jun 30, 2019 5:34 pm)

flimflam wrote:I suggest: stick to facts and try to document everything, preferably with pictures. Also, there are many holohoax questions on Quora, so you'll get lots of chances to post information (until you are banned, of course :) )

You can also point out that the camp records captured by the US/Brits were hidden from independent researchers until 2013 https://booksandideas.net/Opening-the-N ... t-Bad.html

I eventually found these data corresponding to statistics of Auschwitz's inmates on an old page of talk on Wikipedia. That insertion was suppressed soon after its insertion. I have never seen these numbers before neither in exterminationist nor in revisionist publications. It seems that they are pretty compatible with the Sterbebücher available from Russian archives also but that cover only (at least on their published parts) until December 31, 1943 .
A search about Richard Glücks on CODOH doesn't mention these records. Have such numbers been verified for their authenticity and reported in some revisionism work?
Official German Record of Prisoners in Auschwitz Concentration Camp, May 1940 through December 1944

The official German records by Richard Glücks contradict much of what is said for the records killed.

The following derives from the prisoner records of Auschwitz camp from May 1940 through December 1944 in the Glücks complete Concentration Camp microfilm records now located in the Russian Central Archives, Central State Archives No. 187603, Rolls 281-286, as follows:

Roll 281, 1940: Frames 107-869 Roll 282, 1940-41: Frames 001-875 Roll 283, 1941-42: Frames 001-872 Roll 284 1942-43: Frames 003-862 Roll 285, 1943-44: Frames 019-852 Roll 286, 1945: Frames 001-329.

The Russian microfilms cover all of the concentration camp records from 1935-1945 and the Auschwitz records were compiled from these. Note, however, that each months reportage covers all the camps and there is no such thing as an "Auschwitz file" or a "Bergen-Belsen" or "Mauthausen file." The Auschwitz material is included in, let us say, the July 1942 file along with other camp entries and compilations.

Table 1: Non-Jewish Prisoners Entering Auschwitz 1940 1941 1942 1943 1944 January - 1691 843 9474 1767 February - 1339 1508 4065 1052 March - 221 1071 15618 573 April - 4051 1817 7346 5971 May 70 1793 1881 4868 2097 June 1225 731 2583 3368 1412 July 147 1925 3493 4942 1368 August 1156 473 3106 5282 6890 September 1873 785 1628 4531 4604 October 471 7191 2952 8179 674 November 637 1215 2507 3676 1854 December 1190 1217 3172 4961 1251 TOTALS 6769 22632 26561 76310 29513

Total non-Jews in Auschwitz, 1940-1944: 161,785

Table 2: Jewish Prisoners Entering Auschwitz 1941-1944 1941 1942 1943 1944 January - 1166 6076 1445 February - 6762 2507 1299 March - 1000 9037 1178 April - 3004 5054 3175 May - 9736 2453 18927 June - 3518 2520 8438 July 171 3419 4201 12924 August - 5990 13382 12705 September - 4146 7990 2126 October - 4742 1624 1177 November 1 - 3921 - December 6 - 7180 - TOTALS 178 43483 65945 63394

Total Jews in Auschwitz, 1941-1944: 173,000 Total number of inmates in Auschwitz, 1940-1944: 334,785

Table 3: Total Typhus Deaths in Auschwitz, 1941-1944 1941 1942 1943 1944 January - 1776 2123 2801 February - 1515 2979 1933 March - 3018 4604 2321 April - 1392 2835 1771 May - 2911 2378 981 June - 3688 2980 1575 July - 4124 3438 1121 August - 4968 2633 1847 September - 1497 2901 3313 October 2128 6092 3549 3095 November 5084 103 4621 927 December 2585 1023 4679 120 TOTALS 9797 32107 39720 21805

Total deaths by typhus in Auschwitz, 1941-1944: 103,429

Table 4: Jewish Typhus Deaths in Auschwitz, 1942-1944 1942 1943 1944 January 875 1502 1429 February 906 1729 876 March 1789 3981 1312 April 875 895 632 May 1991 1721 407 June 2406 1990 884 July 3090 2017 455 August 3271 968 1129 September 919 1803 1871 October 4789 2705 1294 November 29 3219 927 December 621 2842 91 TOTALS 21561 25372 11307

Total Jewish deaths by typhus in Auschwitz, 1942-1944: 58,240 Total non-Jewish deaths by typhus in Auschwitz, 1941-1944: 45,189

Table 5: Deaths by natural causes (other than typhus) in Auschwitz, 1940-1944 1940 1941 1942 1943 1944 January - 142 120 103 120 February - 175 77 221 191 March - 165 42 198 178 April - 9 39 89 167 May 6 47 23 62 155 June 23 19 21 56 151 July 15 5 16 31 98 August 35 11 5 38 65 September 9 23 19 96 54 October 21 2 25 102 67 November 34 39 49 235 94 December 30 48 61 197 17 TOTALS 173 685 497 1428 1357

Deaths by natural causes (other than typhus), 1940-1944: 4,140

Table 6: Deaths by natural causes (other than typhus), Jews, Auschwitz, 1941-1944 1941 1942 1943 1944 January - 62 62 98 February - 39 117 127 March - 32 120 111 April - 26 43 140 May - 11 37 90 June - 5 41 107 July - 9 16 49 August - 1 24 32 September - 11 61 41 October - 19 81 39 November - 37 104 81 December 7 48 130 6 TOTALS 7 300 836 921

Total Jewish deaths by natural causes (other than typhus), 1941-1944: 2,064

Table 7: Transfers from Auschwitz, 1940-1944 1940 1941 1942 1943 1944 January - 657 - - 612 February - 8 196 - 2060 March - - 275 3001 881 April - 1002 158 1024 2500 May - 36 423 - 7923 June - 4 1845 - 9228 July - - 753 - 15628 August - - - 3195 8957 September - - - 600 9091 October 11 - - 4544 33244 November - - - 3500 8309 December - - - 333 1455 TOTALS 11 1707 3650 16197 99888

Total transferred from Auschwitz, 1940-1944: 121,453

Table 8: Transfers of Jews from Auschwitz, 1941-1944 1941 1942 1943 1944 January 271 - - 409 February - 120 - 1843 March - 37 1572 410 April 459 30 630 1927 May 17 112 - 7540 June - 873 - 8109 July - 120 - 13765 August - - 2871 7501 September - - 395 8502 October - - 3201 28509 November - - 3264 7322 December - - 173 761 TOTALS 747 1292 12106 86598

Total number of Jews transferred from Auschwitz, 1941-1944: 100,743

Table 9: Administrative Executions at Auschwitz, 1940-1944 1940 1941 1942 1943 1944 Nov 22 40 Poles Jan 3 1 Pole July 3 80 Poles Aug 1 1 Jew Nov 14 151 Poles Dec 1 1 Pole Dec 20 5 Poles Jan 24 1 Russian Apr 3 11 Poles May 27 150 Poles May 28 1 Jew June 4 3 Jews June 9 3 Jews June 10 13 Poles June 11 3 Jews June 12 60 Poles, 2 Jews June 13 6 Jews June 15 200 Poles June 16 2 Poles, 2 Jews June 18 8 Jews June 19 50 Poles, 4 Jews June 20 4 Czechs June 22 4 Jews June 23 3 Jews June 25 3 Jews June 26 40 Poles, 1 Jew June 27 4 Jews June 29 2 Poles, 3 Jews July 1 15 Jews July 2 9 Jews July 14 10 Poles, 2 Jews July 16 9 Poles July 20 50 Poles July 23 2 Jews July 29 14 Poles Aug 11 11 Jews Aug 13 1 Pole Aug 18 60 Poles Aug 21 57 Poles Sept 5 1 Jew Sept 25 3 Poles Nov 9 3 Poles Nov 14 1 Pole Nov 17 1 Pole Dec 4 9 Poles, 2 Russians Jan 6 9 Poles, 5 Jews Jan 14 6 Poles Jan 25 22 Poles Jan 26 7 Poles, 2 Jews Feb 7 2 Poles Feb 9 2 Poles, 1 Jew Feb 13 16 Poles Feb 19 11 Poles, 3 Jews Mar 17 1 Pole Apr 3 26 Poles Apr 13 2 Gypsies May 22 13 Poles, 6 Jews, 5 Gypsies May 31 1 Gypsy June 10 20 Poles June 25 68 Poles June 28 30 Poles July 24 1 Pole July 28 4 Poles Aug 20 38 Poles Sept 4 45 Poles, 8 Russians Sept 21 2 Poles Sept 28 9 Poles, 6 Jews, 12 Gypsies, 1 Czech Oct 11 54 Poles Nov 9 50 Poles Feb 1 19 Poles, 8 Russians Mar 24 4 Poles, 3 Jews Sept 15 2 Poles 40 Poles 238 Poles, 1 Jew 746 Poles, 90 Jews, 3 Russians, 4 Czechs 436 Poles, 23 Jews, 8 Russians, 1 Czech, 20 Gypsies 25 Poles, 3 Jews, 8 Russians

Total Poles executed: 1,485 Total Jews executed: 117 Total Russians executed: 19 Total Czechs executed: 5 Total Gypsies executed: 20 Total number of inmates executed: 1,646

Table 10: Hungarian Jews sent to, and transferred from, Auschwitz, May- October 1944 IN OUT May 8548 2963 June 3981 5934 July 6543 9630 August 3881 1500 September 163 1300 October 1 200 TOTALS 23117 21527

Hungarian Jews remaining in Auschwitz after October 1944: 1,590

Note: The number of Hungarian Jews claimed sent to Auschwitz during May-October 1944 in Lucy Dawidowicz, The War Against the Jews, New York (1975) is 450,000; in Raul Hilberg, The Destruction of the European Jews, New York (1985) it is 180,000.

Summary of Jewish prisoners in the Auschwitz camp system, 1941-1944 IN OUT Jewish prisoners entering the Auschwitz camp system 173000 Jewish prisoners who died of typhus 58240 Jewish prisoners who died of natural causes 2064 Jewish prisoners executed 117 Jewish prisoners transferred to other camps 100743 TOTALS 173000 161164

Number of Jewish prisoners remaining at end of 1944: 11,836 plus admissions during November and December 1944

ParisHawkes (talk) 22:43, 13 October 2013 (UTC)
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?ti ... =577051734

Sterbebücher
http://auschwitz.org/en/museum/about-th ... erbebucher
Last edited by Zulu on Sun Jun 30, 2019 5:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Contributing to public platforms

Postby Lamprecht » 3 months 2 weeks ago (Sun Jun 30, 2019 5:52 pm)

Zulu wrote:I eventually found these data corresponding to statistics of Auschwitz's inmates on an old page of talk. I have never seen these number before. A search about Richard Glücks on CODOH doesn't mention it. Have such numbers been reported in some revisionism work?


That seems to be a fake and falsely attributed to Germar Rudolf. See:


Official German Record of Prisoners in Auschwitz Concentration Camp, May 1940 through December 1944
Dr. Germar Rudolf
https://archive.is/qz6mC

From: viewtopic.php?t=4011&start=15#p67844

TheBlackRabbitofInlé wrote:I wrote to Germar Rudolf about this article which spuriously credits him as the author:
http://web.archive.org/web/200601111822 ... m#_ftnref1

he kindly replied to my enquiry and permitted me to quote him:

Germar Rudolf wrote:You are right, the article "Official German Record of Prisoners in Auschwitz Concentration Camp, May 1940 through December 1944," accredited to a "Dr. Germar Rudolf" was not authored by me. Actually, I have not contributed anything to that paper. In addition, I have never used a doctor title for anything which was published with my consent under my real name, because that would be fraudulent, as I do not possess a doctor title.

The paper was written by Peter Stahl, aka Gregory Douglas. I was in frequent contact with him in 2000-2004, but had a major falling out with him in 2002/2003. He once offered me the files/microfilms he claims to have containing the figures published in this paper. I do not remember why I didn't get/obtain them. I probably had other more pressing issues and didn't exactly trust the guy anymore at that point.
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Re: Contributing to public platforms

Postby Zulu » 3 months 2 weeks ago (Sun Jun 30, 2019 6:07 pm)

Lamprecht wrote:
Zulu wrote:I eventually found these data corresponding to statistics of Auschwitz's inmates on an old page of talk. I have never seen these number before. A search about Richard Glücks on CODOH doesn't mention it. Have such numbers been reported in some revisionism work?


That seems to be a fake and falsely attributed to Germar Rudolf. See:


Official German Record of Prisoners in Auschwitz Concentration Camp, May 1940 through December 1944
Dr. Germar Rudolf
https://archive.is/qz6mC

From: viewtopic.php?t=4011&start=15#p67844

TheBlackRabbitofInlé wrote:I wrote to Germar Rudolf about this article which spuriously credits him as the author:
http://web.archive.org/web/200601111822 ... m#_ftnref1

he kindly replied to my enquiry and permitted me to quote him:

Germar Rudolf wrote:You are right, the article "Official German Record of Prisoners in Auschwitz Concentration Camp, May 1940 through December 1944," accredited to a "Dr. Germar Rudolf" was not authored by me. Actually, I have not contributed anything to that paper. In addition, I have never used a doctor title for anything which was published with my consent under my real name, because that would be fraudulent, as I do not possess a doctor title.

The paper was written by Peter Stahl, aka Gregory Douglas. I was in frequent contact with him in 2000-2004, but had a major falling out with him in 2002/2003. He once offered me the files/microfilms he claims to have containing the figures published in this paper. I do not remember why I didn't get/obtain them. I probably had other more pressing issues and didn't exactly trust the guy anymore at that point.


These statistics have been collected and compiled by several people, based on microfilm copies of the original records supplied by Germar Rudolf before his arrest in America and extradition to Germany. There he will face trial for challenging the State's Holocaust dogma. The contributors to this page have agreed that credit should be given to Rudolf who, however, is not responsible for any errors in transcription or interpretation.
https://archive.is/qz6mC#selection-7081.0-7081.437

So, according to Rudolf, the rolls don't come from him but he told that he didn't have time to verify their existence and authenticity. Do these rolls actually exist?
Is it possible to contact the Russian Central Archives in order to obtain more detail on that question?

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Re: Contributing to public platforms

Postby Lamprecht » 3 months 2 weeks ago (Sun Jun 30, 2019 6:23 pm)

The link claims:
Although exact figures of the dead among the remaining Auschwitz inmates in 1945 are not available, several existing Soviet military reports put the death toll between 7,000 and 10,000. Former members of the Polish militia have subsequently claimed that many of the dead were shot down by Russian troops as they attempted to leave the liberated camp. The Russians did not like Jews either, remembering their savagery against them during the salad days of Josef Stalin.


Meanwhile, Germar Rudolf wrote:
according to the Death Books approximately 66,000 people died in Auschwitz by late 1943 alone,[106]
...
[106] Cf. Staatliches Museum Auschwitz-Birkenau (ed.), Die Sterbebücher von Auschwitz, Saur, Munich 1995; for the entire time of the camps' existence, Pressac estimates the total at a reasonable 130,000: op. cit. (note 43), pp. 144ff.
http://www.vho.org/GB/Books/dth/fndstats.html

From "Lectures on the Holocaust":
The fates of the Jews deported from France can be traced quite well by means of the Auschwitz Death Books (Sterbebücher), which are documents kept by the Auschwitz camp administration listing all registered inmates who died in the camp. Some of this data has been published (Staatliches Museum...1995). Although not all volumes have so far been found or released–the series stops at the end of 1943 –they still allow us to gain an insight into the fates of many of these Jews. They tell us that a frightening number of them died in a typhus epidemic which broke out in the camp in spring of 1942. The majority of the Jews deported after the outbreak of that epidemic were not registered in that camp, presumably because the camp, with its catastrophic hygienic conditions, was unable to accept further transports on a large scale, so that those Jews who had been taken to Auschwitz were immediately moved further east or to other camps (Aynat 1994 & 1998b).

[L: What is the total number of deaths listed in those Death Books?]

Some 69,000. But remember that the early months of the camp, the year 1944 and the month of the camp’s liberation(January 1945) are not included



Zulu:
Is it possible to contact the Russian Central Archives in order to obtain more detail on that question?
Maybe, but I doubt you will get any information.
"There is a principal which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments, and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance -- that principal is contempt prior to investigation."
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Re: Contributing to public platforms

Postby Moderator » 3 months 2 weeks ago (Sun Jun 30, 2019 6:32 pm)

One can easily contact Germar Rudolf via www.codoh.com
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