Germar Rudolf demolishes the alleged Zyklon-B 'Kula Columns'

Read and post various viewpoints or search our large archives.

Moderator: Moderator

Forum rules
Be sure to read the Rules/guidelines before you post!
User avatar
Hannover
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 9999
Joined: Sun Nov 24, 2002 7:53 pm

Germar Rudolf demolishes the alleged Zyklon-B 'Kula Columns'

Postby Hannover » 3 years 1 month ago (Sun Feb 12, 2017 3:05 am)

The acclaimed Germar Rudolf at his best.

Briefly, for the uninitiated:

- The pesticide Zyklon-B, the alleged killing agent in granular form supposedly used in 'Nazi homicidal gas chambers on an industrial scale at Auschwitz', was allegedly dropped into the alleged gas chambers.

- This was allegedly done by an SS man on the roof who supposedly dumped the Zyklon-B granules into openings / little chimneys / holes in the alleged gas chambers roof and into what are now called 'Kula columns', supposedly metal mesh containers hanging down into the claimed 'gas chambers'. So named after Polish Auschwitz 'inmate' Michał Kula.

- From there the Zyklon-B supposedly released it's cyanide load onto unsuspecting Jews, gays, &'others' who were allegedly deceived into thinking they were about to get showers.

Along with taking down Michał Kula himself, we have an utter demolition of his alleged 'Kula columns', better referred to as laughable Rube Goldberg contraptions.
While crucial to the impossible 'holocaust' narrative, these alleged columns are clearly shown to have been
technically nonsensical.
Read on, comments invited.

- Hannover

The 'holocaust' storyline is one of the most easily debunked narratives ever contrived. That is why those who question it are arrested and persecuted.

http://codoh.com/library/document/4215/
from: Inconvenient History, Vol. 9 (2017), No. 1
Kula’s Columns Revisited
By Germar Rudolf

-----
Image

This is a slightly adapted extract of the upcoming book The Chemistry of Auschwitz: The Technology and Toxicology of Zyklon B and the Gas Chambers – A Crime-Scene Investigation by Germar Rudolf (all color print, 442 pp. 6"×9"). The book is to be released in early March 2017.

Abstract

Since 2000 at the latest, the former Polish Auschwitz inmate Michał Kula has been quoted by mainstream Holocaust historians as the key witness describing how exactly Zyklon B was introduced in the homicidal gas chambers claimed to have existed in Crematoria II and III located in the Auschwitz-Birkenau Camp. This paper analyzes several of Kula’s postwar statements in this regard in order to accurately recreate what Kula described, to assess whether his claims are even technically feasible, and whether Kula’s statements about other aspects are historically accurate. It is demonstrated that Kula’s claims are untrue in many regards, that he has changed his story repeatedly, and that his claims are technically nonsensical.
-----

In 2002, during David Irving's “Real History” Conference in Cincinnati, the late Dr. Robert Countess presented a physical representation of “Kula’s Kolumns,” as he called them.[1] Since the year 2000, these columns have been at the center of a controversy about how exactly the insecticide Zyklon B is supposed to have been introduced into the Morgues #1 of Crematoria II and III at Auschwitz, where, the orthodox Auschwitz narrative has it, up to 400,000 human beings are said to have been poisoned to death. These morgues are sometimes referred to as “the absolute center of human suffering,” so when preparing the upcoming new edition of my expert report, I considered it important to shed some more light onto these devices.

Image

llustration 1: Dr. Countess unloads his “Kula Kolumn” at the Cincinnati conference building in summer of 2002, with Charles Provan inspecting it.

The Auschwitz orthodoxy claims that four holes had been chiseled through the roof of the morgues in question. While some witnesses have claimed that the Zyklon B was simply dumped through those holes, others have claimed that some more-or-less-sophisticated devices were installed beneath those holes.

The most-prominent proponent of this hypothesis is Dutch historian of architecture Dr. Robert van Pelt, who in his book about Auschwitz published several construction drawings of these devices he himself had prepared.[2] Inspired by this, Dr. Countess built a model which he presented at the above-mentioned conference, see Illustrations 1f.

Image

Illustration 2: Dr. Countess sets up his “Kula Kolumn” in the conference room in Cincinnati, summer 2002.

The issue was rekindled last year when a life-size model of the “Kula Kolumn,” built following van Pelt’s drawings, was exhibited at the Venice Biennale, an international exhibition on architecture. It featured prominently in an article in the New York Times about that exhibition,[3] including a photo of the device, see Illustration 3.

Image

llustration 3: A Kula column freely interpreted by Robert van Pelt, exhibited at the Venice Architecture Biennale in 2016 (photo by Gianni Cipriano).

Van Pelt wasn’t the first to prepare construction drawings of these columns. That honor goes to the late French historian Jean-Claude Pressac, who had published his own drawings in his 1989 opus magnum.[4] Both authors have based their drawings on a postwar testimony by Michał Kula – hence the name of the columns. Kula was a Polish Auschwitz inmate who testified shortlyafter the war a number of times about what he claimed to have experienced at Auschwitz.

In addition to Kula’s statements, there are, to my knowledge, seven other witnesses claiming such columns: M. Nyiszli, C.S. Bendel, F. Müller and J. Erber, as well as W. Lutecki, W. Girsa and K. Gracz.[5] Müller’s and Erber’s descriptions stem from the late 1970s/early 1980s, while Bendel’s, Nyiszli’s, Lutecki’s and Girsa’s descriptions are very superficial. Gracz’s description is a little more-detailed and resembles Kula’s first description. Kula, however, is the one witness who described the columns early and in great detail, so I will focus on him here.

As far as I know, Kula testified at least three times after the war, first during the pre-trial investigations leading up to the show trial against former Auschwitz commandant Rudolf Höss, then during the trial itself, and finally during the trial against the Auschwitz camp garrison. Pressac and van Pelt merely considered Kula’s first testimony. However, in order to assess the accuracy of his testimony and his trustworthiness as a truthful witness, all of his testimonies need to be considered.

During his first deposition, Kula gave a very detailed description of these columns, so detailed, in fact, that he must have been involved in the columns’ manufacture, if they existed in the first place. Here is Kula’s statement from his deposition made prior to the trial against the former Auschwitz commandant Rudolf Höss:[6]

“Among other things, the fake showers intended for the gas chambers and the wire-mesh columns to pour the contents of the Zyklon cans into the gas chambers were manufactured in the metal workshop. This column was about 3 meters high, with a square section of about 70 cm [wide]. This column was composed of three mesh works inserted one inside the other. The outer screen was made from wire three millimeters thick, fastened to angle irons of 50 by 10 millimeters. Such corner posts were on each corner of the column and were connected at the top and the bottom by an angle iron of the same type. The openings of the wire mesh were 45 millimeters in square. The second screen was made in the same manner, and constructed within the first column [screen] at a distance of 150 millimeters from the first. The openings of this wire mesh were some 25 millimeters in square. In the corners these screens were connected to each other by iron struts. The third part of this column could be moved. It was an empty column of thin galvanized sheet metal with a square cross-section of about 150 mm, which ended in the upper part with a cone and below with a flat square base. At a distance of some 25 millimeters, thin sheet metal corners were welded to the corners of this column supported by sheet-metal brackets. On these corners was mounted a thin mesh with openings of about one millimeter in square. This mesh ended at the bottom of the cone, and from there, extending the meshwork, ran a sheet-metal casing for the entire height up to the top of the cone. The content of a Zyklon can was poured from above in the distributor cone, which allowed for an equal distribution of the Zyklon to all four sides of the column. After the evaporation of the gas, the entire central column was extracted and the evaporated [depleted] silica [carrier] removed.”

It doesn’t cast a favorable light on Kula’s credibility that the showers were actually real, as Mattogno has demonstrated abundantly.[7]

Kula was working in the inmate metalworking shop at Auschwitz, about whose activities a vast number of documents survived the war. No document about the creation of columns as described by Kula is among them, though. In fact, there is neither any material nor documentary evidence that these columns ever existed.[8] Kula himself must have anti­cipated this objection, because in the same testimony he claimed that work done for the crematoria were not registered presumably due to their alleged secret, criminal auspices. This, too, is untrue, as there is an abundance of work orders for items needed for the crematoria.[9]

Now to Kula’s next testimony. During the Höss Trial itself, he testified on the 5th day of that trial, where he stated the following:[10]

“On Höss’s order, the gassing columns that were used for the gassing were made by the metalworking shop. The columns were 2 meters and a half high, the inner space 150 square mm in diameter, the following [layer[11]] at a distance of 30 mm, the third 15 mm away. The wire mesh used was like those used for windows, green in color; between the mire mesh and the sheet metal there was a distance of 15 mm. All this was about 1 meter and a half tall. At the mouth of this network was a so-called distribution cone. 7 pieces of these columns were made. The columns were installed in the gas chamber right next to the opening through which the can of gas was thrown in. This column was installed beneath this opening, the gas was poured directly onto the distribution cone. The cone was to uniformly distribute the gas into these four slots of 15 mm between the sheet metal and the netting, since that increased the gas-evaporation surface. That way the victims could be killed more rapidly. [Question:] What did such a gas chamber look like? In one crematorium, it was calculated for 2,500 men, in the other, smaller one [gas chamber] in the same crematorium for 1,500. The workers of the metalworking shop, inmates, had built this chamber. The chamber was higher than 2 meters, at the top were closed rectangular channels; these were the air-extraction openings through which fans expelled the gas. Zyklon is lighter than air; hence it dissipates quickly after the gassing. Makeshift [fake] showers were made so that the whole thing looked like a bath. Lamps were lit, the concrete floor was always wet. After a homicidal gassing, inmates of the Sonderkommando cleaned the concrete [floor]. These were Jewish inmates who were assigned to doing that work. Every three months, the Sonderkommando was exterminated, gassed, yet not at Auschwitz, but somewhere in the vicinity of Gleiwitz instead. The leader of this unit was Hauptscharführer Moll, […]”

This passage is riddled with untrue statements.

1. As just mentioned, the showers and thus the bathing facilities were real.
2. The claimed capacity of 2,500 men for the alleged homicidal gas chamber, which has a surface area of some 200 m², is physically impossible (see Paragraph 7.3.2.1.1. in my expert report for details).
3. There were not two gas chambers of different sizes in that crematorium, but allegedly only one (Morgue #1).
4. The inmates of the metalworking shop had nothing to do with the construction of the crematoria, of which the gas chambers are said to have been integral parts. These inmates merely provided numerous iron fittings.
5. Even according to the orthodox narrative, nobody was ever gassed “in the vicinity of Gleiwitz.”

Image

llustration 4: Author’s drawing of the “Zyklon-B-introduction columns” as described by Michał Kula in his pre-trial deposition. Black: 5-cm-wide corner irons of the outer column, 70 cm wide; red: 3-mm-thick wire mesh with mesh size 4.5 cm; green: outer column connected by struts (green; number of sets my guess) at the corners to the middle column (blue), made of the same corner irons, 15 cm away from the outer screen (column width: 40 cm); wire mesh with mesh size 2.5 cm (light green); orange: inner column, 20 cm wide, with fine wire mesh of mesh size 0.1 cm, 2.5 cm away from the inner sheet-metal column of 15 cm width (ochre). At the top end of the screen is the sheet metal extension covering the distributor cone (light grey). See the next Illustration for a close-up view of the top part of the inner column.

Since Kula was not a member of the Sonderkommando, one wonders what the source of his “knowledge” about the gas chambers and their operation is anyway. It probably is mere hearsay or rumor “knowledge,” which indicates that Kula’s testimony has been “cross-pollinated” by other witnesses.

Most important is, however, that he completely changed the dimensions of the Zyklon-B-introduction columns. That should be the first-hand, reliable and thus immutable aspect of his testimony. According to his first, pre-trial deposition, the column was 3 meters high, which he changed to 2.50 meters during the trial. While the inner core measures 150 mm wide in both testimonies, the column described in his testimony during the trial was only (15+30+150+30+15=) 240 mm wide in total, compared to the 700 mm of his pre-trial statement. These are obviously two entirely different objects he is describing. While one can confuse 3 m with 2.5 m, confusing 70 cm with 24 cm is not likely. Hence Kula has adjusted his statement. I’ll get to the probable reason for this later.

Image

Illustration 5: Schematic drawing of the top part of the innermost column of the introduction device initially described by Kula. The width of the sheet-metal corners (green) and the height of the “distributor cone” and hence also of the sheet-metal extensions reaching to the height of the cone’s top are my assumptions.

To fully assess the reliability of Kula as a witness, it is worthwhile to also consider his last testimony known to me, which he gave during the trial against the Auschwitz camp garrison a few months after the Höss Trial. During that testimony, he did not mention the columns at all. But among other things, he stated the following:[12]

“Then they began to build gigantic crematoria. They were set up so that the victims could not understand where they were taken. Each crematorium had two gas chambers, one for 1,500 and one for 2,000 people. There was a special concrete ski-jump [skocznie, meaning chute] on which the people were thrown from the truck, [whose loadbed] tipped automatically, and in this way the people were falling into the gas chambers.”

This is a unique testimony, indeed. Although I do have words to characterize it, I will refrain from using them here. Evidently, with each opportunity to tell his tales, Kula’s claims became increasingly erratic.

Since his first description of the introduction column is more-detailed and was made earlier, orthodox scholars have relied on it. As mentioned before, both Pressac and van Pelt have prepared drawings of these columns based on Kula’s initial description. Neither of them is without flaws. For instance, Pressac got the dimensions of the inner column wrong and changed its design, while van Pelt’s translation of Kula’s testimony is erroneous, and though the data supplied in Kula’s testimony is rather meager, van Pelt uses it to make five different, very-detailed drawings – some of it necessarily based on his own conjecture. In order to get a more-realistic depiction of what Kula described in his first testimony, I created my own drawings, see Illustrations 4f. I have added only those features in them that Kula specifically mentioned. For instance, Kula did not say anything about any cross-bracing of the column, which would have been indispensable to make the device sturdy enough to withstand a panicking crowd.

Van Pelt recognized this deficiency; hence the model created based upon his drawing as exhibited during the 2016 Venice Biennale (see Illustration 3) shows tacit “corrections” to Kula’s claims: van Pelt’s column has cross braces dividing the column into three sections of roughly equal height. To reinforce the device further, van Pelt’s model also has much thicker wires on the outer layer – some 8 mm rather than the meager 3 mm claimed by Kula. In addition, van Pelt has reduced the width of the center column from the 40 cm claimed by Kula to some 30 cm. In fact, he should have reduced it even further than that, for the innermost, removable column with a claimed width of 20 cm needed a guide so it would not get accidentally stuck with one of its corners in the wire mesh of the middle column when accidentally lowered slightly tilted. The angle irons forming the corners of the middle column actually could have had no other purpose than to function as guide rails for the inner column when moving in and out. The middle column’s wire mesh was utterly superfluous and a waste. However, Kula claimed that the middle column was 40 cm wide, while the innermost was 20 cm wide. Hence it was a total mismatch. The situation is different for Kula’s second description, which has an equal clearance between each layer of just 15 mm.

Van Pelt also reduced the height of the outer column to considerably less than 3 meters as initially claimed by Kula. The reason for that is probably because there are no holes in the roof of the morgue in question measuring 70 cm × 70 cm into which Kula’s columns could have fit. The largest hole in that roof was only 50 cm wide in 1991, to which I will get further below. Hence van Pelt simply let the outer layer of his column end at the morgue’s ceiling and let only the smaller middle column protrude through the roof. This lack of holes of the required size proves categorically that Kula’s initially described columns cannot have been installed. That may also be the reason why Kula reduced the height down to 2.50 m in his testimony during the trial (although the ceiling in that room was only 2.40 m high).

Illustration 6 illustrates the issues involved. The green rectangle depicts Kula’s column, first design, with a huge, gaping hole needed to install it. The red, tilted rectangle shows a column of 2.40 m in height and 70 cm wide, as posited by van Pelt. Since it would have been impossible to carry it in one piece into that room and install it, it would have been necessary to assemble it from its components right on the spot. The yellow rectangle depicts Kula’s middle column, 40 cm wide, which could have been inserted through a hole of that size.

Image

Illustration 6: Cross section through Morgue #1 of Crematories II and III (Pressac 1989, p. 329). Green: column according to Kula – theoretically installable from the top only, but too short and too wide; yellow: middle column according to van Pelt – installable from the top, but also too short; red: outer column according to van Pelt, which had to be assembled on-site from its components.

At 3 m high, these columns were therefore either too tall or not tall enough, because the combined height of the room, the roof’s thickness and the layer of soil on top of this roof was 3.10 m.[13] Hence, in order to let an introduction column protrude sufficiently from the soil, it had to be considerably longer than that (3.50 m and more).

In other words: Kula’s columns, first design, would have been way too long to fit into the room, too short to stick out of the soil, and too wide to fit through any hole in that roof. Someone must have figured that out, because when testifying in court several months later, Kula’s column had shrunk to almost a fitting height and to a slender width of almost a third of Kula’s first design.

It goes without saying that these columns, if they existed, had to be securely anchored into the concrete of the ceiling and floor with a hoop iron in order to prevent the panicking crowd inside from trampling them down. This can be illustrated for the hole shown in Illustration 8. Van Pelt and Keren et al.[14] posit that this was the northern-most introduction hole into which Kula’s columns were mounted. In his version of Kula’s column, van Pelt even added the bolts with which the outer part of the column would have been anchored into the ceiling, see Illustration 7.

Image

Illustration 7: Anchoring bolts in Kula’s column according to van Pelt. Section enlargement of Illustration 3.

Illustration 8 shows a top view of this hole as it looked in 2007 when Dr. Fredrick Töben visited the camp. Its maximum width is indicated by the red arrows (50 cm). Kula’s column, first design, is said to have had a square side length of 70 cm (yellow arrows). The semi-transparent yellow rectangles indicate the area where van Pelt’s bolts required to anchor the columns in the ceiling would have been located. It should therefore be possible to find remnants of some of these anchoring points in the concrete still today, but as I said before, there is no trace of them.

Image

Illustration 8: Top view of the hole in the roof of Morgue #1 of Crematorium II, entry to the still-accessible part of the morgue. Maximum width: 50 cm (red); Kula’s introduction columns allegedly had a square side length of 70 cm (yellow arrows). These would have had to be bolted to the ceiling somewhere along the semi-transparent yellow rectangles. Some of the anchoring points should still be visible today, but there aren’t any. © photo: 1997 Fredrick Töben.

On top of that, I also posit that Kula’s column could not have worked as he claimed. Kula initially stated that the Zyklon-B gypsum granules were poured into the narrow space of 2.5 cm between the inner column’s sheet-metal core and its outer screen. Already pouring the pellets into that narrow space could have led to clogging anywhere along the height of the column. Even if that did not happen, it is safe to say that the gypsum pellets would have gotten very wet. There are two reasons for this.

First because the room it was inserted into is said to have been filled with people. They would have produced an atmosphere saturated with water. This humidity would have condensed on anything colder than the air those people exhaled. In addition to this, in the case under investigation here, hydrogen cyanide would have eva­po­rated vigorously from the carrier, withdrawing considerable amounts of energy from it, hence cooling it down. This would have led to the condensation of large quantities of air humidity onto the pellets.

Wet gypsum tends to stick and clump together. Getting this wet gypsum, which would have stuck to the screen while still releasing poisonous hydrogen cyanide, out of the inner column would have been rather difficult, and dangerous. Pounding the screen to get the pellets out would quickly have ruined that flimsy inner column. In brief, it would have been a mess.

The situation gets even worse when we consider Kula’s second description, where this space has shrunk to a mere 15 mm. It wouldn’t even have been possible to get the Zyklon-B granules to fall down such a narrow gap without getting stuck and clogging the whole thing, let alone cleaning it out afterwards with moist, clumped-together gypsum sticking to the screen.

There is more to this story, but I will refrain from discussing it here. The interested reader can consult my expert report about that. At the end of it all, it boils down to the simple fact that Michał Kula, having made numerous false claims and having changed his testimony repeatedly, is an untrustworthy witness. In addition, the solution he suggested as to how Zyklon B was introduced into those morgues is simply impracticable and an insult to any engineer’s or architect’s intelligence – naturally bearing in mind the fact that the ruins of Crematorium II clearly prove that no such columns were ever installed any­way, if they ever existed in the first place.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Notes
[1] See Robert H. Countess, “The Kula Kolumn – Exactitude in Action,” The Revisionist 2(1) (2004), pp. 56-61; http://codoh.com/library/document/1644/
[2] Robert J. van Pelt, The Case for Auschwitz. Evidence from the Irving Trial, Indiana University Press, Bloomington/Indianapolis 2002, pp. 194, 208.
[3] Jennifer Schuessler, “‘The Evidence Room’: Architects Examine the Horrors of Auschwitz,” New York Times, June 14, 2016; http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/15/arts/ ... hwitz.html
[4] Jean-Claude Pressac, Auschwitz: Technique and Operation of the Gas Chambers, Beate Klarsfeld Foundation, New York 1989, p. 487.
[5] For quotes and a critique of the testimonies by M. Kula, M. Nyiszli, C.S. Bendel, F. Müller and J. Erber see Carlo Mattogno, “The Elusive Holes of Death”, in Germar Rudolf, Carlo Mattogno, Auschwitz Lies, 3rd ed., Castle Hill Publishers, Uckfield, 2016, pp. 285, 287-291. For the statements by W. Lutecki, W. Girsa and K. Gracz see Piotr Setkiewicz, Voices of Memory, Vol. 6: The Auschwitz Crematoria and Gas Chambers. Auschwitz-Birkenau State Museum, Auschwitz 2011, pp. 43-45.
[6] Files of the Höss Trial, Vol. 2, pp. 99f.; cf. Document 9 in the appendix to the upcoming new edition of my expert report, Germar Rudolf, The Chemistry of Auschwitz: The Technology and Toxicology of Zyklon B and the Gas Chambers – A Crime-Scene Investigation, Castle Hill Publishers, Uckfield 2017.
[7] Carlo Mattogno, The Real Case for Auschwitz, Castle Hill Publishers, Uckfield 2015, pp. 148-157.
[8] Ibid., pp. 83-93.

[9] See for instance the many references to such work orders in the book just quoted, plus Carlo Mattogno, “The Crematoria Ovens of Auschwitz and Birkenau,” in: Germar Rudolf, Dissecting the Holocaust, 2nd ed., Theses & Dissertations Press, Chicago 2003, pp. 373-412, C. Mattogno, Franco Deana, The Cremation Furnaces of Auschwitz, Castle Hill Publishers, Uckfield 2015.
[10] Höss Trial, Vol. 25, p. 498; see Document 10 in the appendix to the upcoming new edition of my expert report.
[11] “następna” is an adjective in the nominative feminine singular that could refer only to “średnicy” (diameter), the only feminine noun in the sentence, but that makes no sense. The witness obviously referred to the next wire-mesh layer of the column (“siatka” = netting; “warstwa” = layer; both feminine).
[12] AGK, NTN 162, p. 46; see Document 11 in the appendix to the upcoming new edition of my expert report.
[13] The thickness of the concrete roof and the layer of soil are shown in various blueprints; cf. Mattogno 2016b, p. 364; 2015a, pp. 89-91.
[14] Daniel Keren, Jamie McCarthy, Harry W. Mazal, “The Ruins of the Gas Chambers: A Forensic Investigation of Crematoria at Auschwitz I and Auschwitz-Birkenau,” Holocaust and Genocide Studies, 9(1) (2004), pp. 68-103.

also recommended:
Cyanide Chemistry at Auschwitz
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4111
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

Raikiri
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2017 12:38 pm

Re: Germar Rudolf demolishes the alleged Zyklon-B 'Kula Columns'

Postby Raikiri » 3 years 1 month ago (Fri Feb 17, 2017 7:55 pm)

The solution to this gas chamber debate is so painfully obvious, yet we will never see it resolved because the people that possess the resources to effectively end the debate are the ones that are feverishly working to protect their lucrative positions that have been built on a foundation of nonsense and lies.

From the perspective of an exterminationist, the "gas chambers" at Auschwitz were so damned primitive that they were nothing more than a concrete cellar with these Kula Columns. There was no sophisticated machinery or special construction materials or techniques involved with the extermination process.

For this reason, the exterminationists have a profound opportunity to deal the revisionists a fatal blow by building a full scale chamber to demonstrate its effectiveness in terms of maximum occupancy levels and how quickly the cyanide concentration would reach a lethal limit within the entire room without any device to circulate the gas or heat the pellets. They could also demonstrate the techniques that were used to neutralize the cyanide saturated air within the room before the sonderkommando entered to begin the disposal of the bodies.

With the resources and funding that these liars possess, building a concrete cellar with chicken wire columns should be nothing more than a drop in the bucket.

User avatar
Hektor
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 3438
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2006 7:59 am

Re: Germar Rudolf demolishes the alleged Zyklon-B 'Kula Columns'

Postby Hektor » 3 years 1 month ago (Sat Feb 18, 2017 6:12 pm)

Welcome to the forum, Raikiri!

Raikiri wrote:The solution to this gas chamber debate is so painfully obvious, yet we will never see it resolved because the people that possess the resources to effectively end the debate are the ones that are feverishly working to protect their lucrative positions that have been built on a foundation of nonsense and lies.

From the perspective of an exterminationist, the "gas chambers" at Auschwitz were so damned primitive that they were nothing more than a concrete cellar with these Kula Columns. There was no sophisticated machinery or special construction materials or techniques involved with the extermination process.

For this reason, the exterminationists have a profound opportunity to deal the revisionists a fatal blow by building a full scale chamber to demonstrate its effectiveness in terms of maximum occupancy levels and how quickly the cyanide concentration would reach a lethal limit within the entire room without any device to circulate the gas or heat the pellets. They could also demonstrate the techniques that were used to neutralize the cyanide saturated air within the room before the sonderkommando entered to begin the disposal of the bodies.

With the resources and funding that these liars possess, building a concrete cellar with chicken wire columns should be nothing more than a drop in the bucket.


The issue could indeed be resolved pretty easily with a budget of perhaps 2 million Dollar. You could build simulating facilities and make a documentary movie of several hours about it. That is, if you really want to. But I think they don't and I also think some key figures in the Holocaust scene know very well that their narrative would be completely demolished if they did.

Indeed there are so many flaws in the described procedure that it can not be done that way with the existing facilities - It wouldn't work at all for reasons of feasibility.

OK, you got 2000 Jews to gas.
- You take them to the undressing room /Entkleidungskeller (which I think was the part where corpses were unclothed and finally handled). Do you really think this works in that short space there? Taken you could let people go in batches. But that would make them suspicious.
- They undressed you move into the supposed gas chamber (which I think was the part were corpses were stored for a longer time until it was just right to cremate a batch). Again you've got the space requirements and you'd need a hell of a lot of cooperation from the people in question. Unlikely, they'd smell a rat and you'd have resistance and a panic.
- But assume you got them into the chamber (which really was a morgue). Now you got to get the Zyklon B in (I know the holes are in dispute, assume again that they were there ). Kula Columns would help getting it to the ground. Now the HCN needs to be released and spread in the room. Problems: Temperature, air flow, humidity. Another challenge is the time constraints. How much Zyklon B do you need and how much HCN will remain in the Zyklon B when you're "finished".
- Provided you got them killed now you got to remove the corpses. Wait. How will you get the remaining gas out of the room and how long does that take? Do you have ventilation available and will that really help? What about gas that's in between the corpses?
- Then you have to move the corpses from the cellar to the ovens. It's a tiny lift you got as "help" there. Really not a great design for mass movement of corpses? Why did you build the gas chamber in the cellar in the first place? What about maintenance requirements of a lift that has to go several hundred times up and down per day?
- Ok, assume you got the corpses on top in front of the oven. Now you have to fit them in one by one. Your multiple corpses in the muffle want work. In fact, it would retard the process. You got 15 muffles Each requiring 1.5 hours per cremation. How long is that supposed to take? How much coke do you need and is there any record for deliveries?

How does all this work into the narrative? Where is the instruction manuals for the homicidal gas chambers? Where is the orders for the SS / Sonderkommando - Where is the progress reports?

Our exterminationists can of course now come and twist and mince words to find responses, which however don't provide real answers to the problems raised. And it's not enough to have an answer or "rebuttal" for a few of the questions. You virtually have to answer them all so that your pig can fly.

They'd a "Historians Commission" for Dresden that came up with far lower mortality figures for the bombing. I think they give 25.000 instead of the more common 250.000 murdered that night. They couldn't find all the mass graves they say (meanwhile there was a lot of landscaping and construction work in those areas). They can't find left overs of ammunition supposedly used to fire on people on the ground (Did they even look?). I think they were very specific on this and tried to refute eyewitness testimony. They had no problem choosing the lack of forensic evidence over the eyewitness testimony this time. They then wrote a report on this. Published it. Apparently there was some pressure on them to do such an investigation, because the Dresden commemoration took place each year. They didn't like the political implications thereof. So it's clear what direction there report would go.

But doesn't Auschwitz get far ore attention than Dresden. How many people visit the museum there each year. So where was the "Historians Commission" in that case? What was there findings? If not, why not? How can you make claims about Auschwitz then and even jail people, if their position does not conform?

User avatar
Lamprecht
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 1576
Joined: Sun Nov 30, 2008 6:32 pm

Re: Germar Rudolf demolishes the alleged Zyklon-B 'Kula Columns'

Postby Lamprecht » 6 months 4 days ago (Mon Sep 30, 2019 10:04 pm)

Pon has brought up the laughable Kula columns again in the following thread: viewtopic.php?t=12751

Germar Rudolf debunks these laughable fake columns in:

Auschwitz: Technique and Operation of the Gas Chambers—An Introduction and Update to Jean-Claude Pressac’s Magnum Opus
https://holocausthandbooks.com/dl/42-ataootgc.pdf
Wire-Mesh Devices and Wooden Blinds

As mentioned earlier, the roof and floor of the morgues of Crematoria II & III were made very thick in order to weigh down those basements so they would not float up due to the high groundwater level. Pressac shows cross sections of these morgues on pages 322 through 325, juxtaposing the old version with a thin roof and floor meant for the Main Camp, with the new one for Birkenau where the reinforced concrete roof is some 30 cm thick, and the floor 58 cm.

The orthodox Auschwitz narrative has it that, when the decision was made to use these morgues as mass-slaughter facilities, four holes were knocked through he roof of Morgues #1 of both Crematoria. Yet after examining the roof, the already mentioned Dr. van Pelt stated:116

“Today, these four small holes […] cannot be observed in the ruined remains of the concrete slab.”

Subsequently, mainstream writers tried unsuccessfully to prove the opposite by declaring some odd cracks in the blown-up roof to be these holes which were allegedly knocked through the concrete after it had already cured.117

Before going into detail, we should be aware that three essential changes to the two Morgues #1 would have had to be made if the SS really planned to use them for mass gassings:

1. The inmates had to be locked into that room securely using massive technically gastight steel doors.

2. A device had to be included that would have allowed the swift evaporation and dissipation of HCN from the Zyklon B carrier material.

3. An upgrade to the ventilation system would have been wise in order to allow for a swift evacuation of the toxic fumes.

None of these changes were implemented. We already covered the doors, and we spoke about the professionally designed standard fumigation gas chambers by the Degesch Company which were planned to be installed in the reception building in the Auschwitz Main Camp. Instead of taking their design principles and applying them somehow to those planned mass-slaughter facilities, witnesses and orthodox scholars want to make us believe that the SS totally forgot about any of these issues when building those crematoria, and when they finally realized belatedly that they needed to find a way of introducing HCN into the morgues, they are said to have ruined the only massively built underground rooms of Birkenau by destroying their roofs with jackhammers.

The engineers involved in building those facilities weren’t imbeciles, while those uncritically spreading those claims are much closer to that description.

Dumping Zyklon B through some holes amidst several hundred or even a thousand and more people is a bad idea. There would have been no way of retrieving the pellets after the deed. It would therefore have kept releasing the toxic fumes for an hour or more, making it difficult to ventilate the room in a timely fashion.

But where there are plenty of witnesses letting their fantasies run wild, there is also a simple solution. Hence, several witnesses have claimed – contradicted by others, but that is usually ignored by the mainstream – that some column-shaped device was built into those holes which allowed the Zyklon B to be removed from the chamber after the murder. The most prominent among these witnesses, Michał Kula, is quoted by Pressac, and he even drew a sketch of the device as described by Kula, a former inmate employee at the Auschwitz metalworking shop (see page 487). Pressac claims that the existence of this device is supported by the inventory list of Crematorium II (see page 438). It has a handwritten entry reading “4 Drahtnetzeinschiebevorrichtung,” translating to “4 wire-mesh push-in devices.” The “4 Holz blenden” – 4 wooden blinds or screens – listed on the next line, also handwritten, are interpreted as having been wooden lids to cover those devices.

The problems with that interpretation are manifold:

1. There were no holes in the roofs in which any devices could have been installed. That renders the whole discussion moot.

2. These are the only handwritten entries. Anyone could have entered them at any time before the document was first published.

3. Kula made three depositions shortly after the war: one before the show trial against former Auschwitz camp commander Rudolf Höss, one during the trial, and another one during the trial against the Auschwitz camp garrison a few months after the Höss Trial. In his first two depositions he described the claimed Zyklon-B introduction columns with such detail that it must be assumed that he was involved in manufacturing them. The problem is that he described them differently in each case. Before the trial, he claimed that these columns had a square cross-section of 70 cm (Illustration 48),118 while in his second deposition their size had shrunk to a mere 24 cm (Illustration 49).119 In his third deposition, he said among other things:120

“Then they began to build gigantic crematoria. They were set up so that the victims could not understand where they were being taken. Each crematorium had two gas chambers, one for 1,500 and one for 2,000 people. There was a special concrete ski-jump [no joking] onto which the people were thrown from the truck, [whose load bed] tipped automatically, and in this way the people fell into the gas chambers.”

Kula turned the one claimed gas chamber into two, and although it is true that Crematoria II & III had a corpse chute – more on that later – neither could trucks get access to it, nor did it lead directly into any of the morgues, nor is that how – according to the orthodox narrative – any living inmate is said to have entered that facility. Kula was simply making up a wild story. So much for his credibility.

4. No material or documentary trace of these columns exists. The paperwork left behind in the metalworking shop had no entry for these devices. There are not even cracks in the roof today that have a size of 70 cm square (for the column, 1st edition). The places where those columns would have to have been anchored in the floors and ceilings show no traces of anchoring points.

Image
Ill. 48: Kula’s column, 1st edition.

5. The outer meshwork, drawn in red in Illustrations 48f., was only 3 mm thick, which would have been destroyed by a panicking crowd.

6. The slit into which the Zyklon-B-pellets were allegedly thrown was only 15 mm wide (2nd edition). The gypsum pellets would have gotten stuck while falling down that slit, clogging it, making it impossible to fill it properly.

7. The air in that morgue would have been saturated with moisture. When HCN evaporates, it cools down the gypsum, leading to condensation. Moist gypsum gets gooey, making it practically impossible to clean these columns afterwards.

8. With no heat source and no forced air movement, the release of toxic fumes from this device would have been slow at best, particularly when considering the air’s humidity condensing on the pellets.

9. In the inventory table, the wooden blinds and wire-mesh columns are listed for Morgue #2 (the “undressing basement”), not Morgue #1 (the “gas chamber”).

10. If the Zyklon-B insertion columns were to be entered in the inventory, why were only the inner removable part and the lid listed?

11. The German word “Einschiebevorrichtung” denotes a drawer-like device that is pushed in horizontally. The German word for drawer is “Schublade” – where the noun “Schub” (thrust, push) comes from the verb “schieben” (to push, shove, thrust). A “Blende” on the other hand, is not a lid (for the column) but a blind or screen. The German word for lid is “Deckel,” closure is “Verschluss,” cover is “Abdeckung.”

Image
Ill. 49: Kula’s column, 2nd edition.

12. “Einschiebevorrichtung” is on occasion used in the German language to describe devices used to push items into an oven or furnace (baking oven, cremation furnace). Zimmermann writes, for instance, about baking ovens:121

“For the loading and unloading [of the oven], baking plates are hitched and unhitched from the support chains by a slider for unloading and loading [Aus- und Einschiebvorrichtung], which operates without jolting, and are automatically inserted into and then removed from the oven.”

In a German patent for an automatic pizza oven, this term is mentioned several times.122 In the context of devices for pushing coffins into cremation muffles, the term shows up as well,123 but more often the closely related term “Einschubvorrichtung.”124 On March 7, 2003, the voluntary fire fighters of the German city of Hof had to respond to a call from the local crematorium, because a “deficient [corpse] push-in device/Einschubvorrichtung” had caused a fire in the furnace system.125

13. The proper terms for the claimed devices would have been “(Drahtnetz)Einwurf/Einfüllvorrichting” or “Einführvorrichtung” and “Holzdeckel” (or “Abdeckung”).

14. The extant documents about the crematoria show indeed two introduction devices that were properly named:

– The door of the garbage chute used to fill the garbage incinerator was called “Einwurfblende” (throw-in screen).126

– The window used to throw coal into the coal storage rooms of Crematoria IV and V was called “Kohleneinwurffenster” (coal throw-in window).127

As I stated earlier, the engineers involved in building those facilities weren’t imbeciles. If they really wanted to turn this into a mass-gassing facility, they could have come up with a solution of introducing the toxic fumes into that room using its ventilation system – by simply inserting a heating device and a basket for Zyklon B somewhere in the ventilation ducts or chimneys, which were accessible from the building’s attic, for instance.

Why would the Germans use something so ridiculous? Why not have a device such as this (designed to blow hot air on Zyklon-B pellets to make them outgas quickly) enclosed somewhere so it can not be seen or touched, with a ventilation system that allows the HCN to be ventilated quickly?

Image

Read more:

Pressac’s Solution – Gas Chamber Ventilation
viewtopic.php?t=5493
In order to stick to their dumb design, the Nazis even built gas chambers impossible to ventilate. Since hydrogen cyanide is lighter than air, air inputs at the top of a room and air outputs at the bottom of it would have failed to pump hydrogen cyanide out of such a "gas chamber." Such a ventilation system was the best way to keep hydrogen cyanide inside a room…or to pump cold decomposition gases (heavier than air) out of a morgue. Moreover, vents at the bottom of a room would have been often obstructed by the dead bodies of people haphazardly falling everywhere.

Image
"There is a principal which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments, and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance -- that principal is contempt prior to investigation."
-- Herbert Spencer

Pon
Member
Member
Posts: 25
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2019 10:09 am

Re: Germar Rudolf demolishes the alleged Zyklon-B 'Kula Columns'

Postby Pon » 4 months 2 weeks ago (Sun Nov 17, 2019 6:31 pm)

Lamprecht wrote:
Pon wrote:What would they have done better? Without revealing it to be a gas chamber that is? They had to be very careful in that regard.

I guess this is a topic for another thread, but anyway: How could they have exterminated Jews more efficiently than what is claimed?

First, I will ask: Can YOU think of a more effective method of killing people in gas chambers with Zyklon-B than pouring it down wire mesh columns? If not, you have essentially explained how, even if the handful of "eyewitnesses" who claim to have witnessed Auschwitz gassings were lying, many of them would have described some sort of device like this. Perhaps, it seems obvious if you know a bit about Zyklon-B, as in, that it is in the form of pellets that evaporate. Back then they would not have had the internet to look these things up. In other cases, they were likely just repeating what they had heard, or were coaxed into giving this testimony.

Anyway, to answer: Conveyor belt exterminations. Massive cremations, like the four story continuous operation furnace that was never built. Using individual ovens for this purpose is absurd. See:
Auschwitz cremation ovens and the "four-story continuous operation corpse incineration oven" never built
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=12778

Image

The thing is, you believe millions of gassed jews occurred. So you're not looking at this from some blank or objective perspective, as in "Someone wants to kill millions of people. This is how they intend to do it. What do you think of the effectiveness of this method?"
You're already invested in the story, and you believe 1+ million were killed in this way at Auschwitz, therefore, it must have been efficient. Except, of course, that did not really happen; and it is circular thinking to use this line of reasoning. You're starting with the conclusion already decided upon, and then subjecting yourself to confirmation bias.

Anyway, to use Zyklon-B pellets for this is just laughable. But if they wanted to, they would have needed to blow hot air on it, with something like the following device:
Image

The device even had a can opener and poured the pellets down, which were then blown with hot air to cause them to outgas quickly. For someone to slow the Zyklon-B pellets in the supposed 'Kula columns' from outgassing, they would have just had to urinate on them.

They also would have had some sort of assembly line so people did not manually have to drag the corpses. And the 'gas chamber' would not have been below the crematorium, so they could have used gravity to move the bodies into the furnace. Maybe they could have used some industrial size meat grinder. Instead, they used some 4x9 foot manually drawn elevator! 500,000 people allegedly pulled up on that elevator, Pon. That's the actual story.

There is also the issue with the totally inefficient ventilation system:
Pressac’s Solution – Gas Chamber Ventilation
viewtopic.php?t=5493#p92090
Image

The thing is, they knew all of this. They had built totally efficient Zyklon-B delousing chambers. To make a "Homicidal gas chamber" they just could have made them larger. But instead, they supposedly stuck to some ridiculous design to make life many times harder on themselves, and make the entire operation incredibly inefficient.

But really, if you're going for efficiency, you're just going to use bullets. Why do you think in absolutely no claimed genocides or mass murders in the history of the world were 'homicidal gas chambers' ever employed? Because bullets are far cheaper and far more effective.
Given what I know about the columns I would have used the columns, in order to be able to extract the pellets that haven't evaporated making it safe sooner to extract the victims. As far as I know, only the ones that could actually see the columns described them, other witnesses seems to think that the gas came from the shower heads (which is also what I would have thought if I made it up, and what I did think until recently, lol). That the columns differ in the details is something expected with truthful witnesses, that the details would be exactly the same is a give-away for a set of untruthful witnesses all telling the same preconceived story.

I don't think the victims first thought would be to pee on the columns, rather to get as far away from them as possible. At least when noticing that people close to the columns starts to die quicker than people further away.

In order to spread the gas evenly through the room it makes sense to have four introduction places evenly in the roof rather than a one point source, also the "contraption" used in the delousing chambers would require them to go inside the gas chamber to put the pellets there, which wouldn't be suitable with a room full of people. Having the pellets already there and then lead the victims in would as well not be suitable as the gas would escape the door and that panic would spread as the victims would notice the effects of the gas (unless they could somehow magically get all the people in at the same time). Also, there was no need for warming up the gas as the bodies of the victims did that for them.

I think the official narrative is that 800 to 1000 people were gassed at the same time? For that they were using four cans of Zyklon-B (one in each hole if I remember correctly), I don't know what the bullets would cost, but given that there was a World War I guess they would be needed there in actual life or death situations rather than killing innocent people, that aside I think that 1000 bullets would be more expensive than four cans of Zyklon-B, that's only my opinion though, the official narrative is that the germans needed a indirect method of killing the jews and thus constructed gas vans, since the germans had psychological problems with executing that many innocent people (including of course children and women).

There were many of the sonderkommando that dragged the people out of the gas chambers, I haven't heard of any conveyor belt structure, I guess the Nazi's just decided to use the jews as a "conveyor belt".

No, I'm not looking at this from some blank perspective, that's true, but I don't find more sense to your perspective to be honest, and the holocaust narrative is available for anyone and has been for decades, arguments get refined from both directions and at this point I trust the official narrative more than the revisionists narrative, it's as simple as that. I do take revisionists seriously though, the prussian blue leaking through the entire wall of the delousing chamber did make me wonder, which is why I started the first thread on this forum in the first place. I think debate is important and can be, and has been, of value for the understanding of the holocaust.

User avatar
Lamprecht
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 1576
Joined: Sun Nov 30, 2008 6:32 pm

Re: Germar Rudolf demolishes the alleged Zyklon-B 'Kula Columns'

Postby Lamprecht » 4 months 2 weeks ago (Sun Nov 17, 2019 8:39 pm)

Pon wrote:Given what I know about the columns I would have used the columns, in order to be able to extract the pellets that haven't evaporated making it safe sooner to extract the victims.

Well then, now you have a totally reasonable explanation as to why many people, even if they were lying, would have included such columns. Therefore, the argument "Well multiple people said it, therefore it must be true" is very weak, as it is an obvious detail that would usually be included. It should be noted that some who claimed to have witnessed the gassings made no mention of these sorts of things. Others who claimed to have witnessed mass exterminations argued something other than homicidal gas chambers. Naturally, those that do not correspond to the "official story" would be quietly ignored in favor of the others, so as to make it seem like there is a consensus when there actually is not.

As far as I know, only the ones that could actually see the columns described them, other witnesses seems to think that the gas came from the shower heads (which is also what I would have thought if I made it up, and what I did think until recently, lol). That the columns differ in the details is something expected with truthful witnesses, that the details would be exactly the same is a give-away for a set of untruthful witnesses all telling the same preconceived story.

Many make no mention of columns and those who do argue to have witnessed them give vastly different descriptions about them. This has been explained here: viewtopic.php?t=12767

I don't think the victims first thought would be to pee on the columns, rather to get as far away from them as possible. At least when noticing that people close to the columns starts to die quicker than people further away.

Well maybe they would be vomiting and all that silliness if the story was true. Anyway, the whole point about the columns was so that they could supposedly be extracted, but once they get wet they will be sticky and this would be very difficult to do.

In order to spread the gas evenly through the room it makes sense to have four introduction places evenly in the roof rather than a one point source, also the "contraption" used in the delousing chambers would require them to go inside the gas chamber to put the pellets there, which wouldn't be suitable with a room full of people.

It could be very simply modified so that would not be necessary. Think of a wall with an opening at the bottom, covered with mesh. There is no way that anyone could break through it and get to the device and stop it. The hot air + a fan would force the pellets to outgas quickly and disperse the air all throughout the chamber. There could have been a door/window right there which could be opened by the guards and the Zyklon-B canister inserted, the device turned on (or even a button to turn on the device outside of the room) and then it would work. There's many ways to get around this silliness. Pouring the granules down a column is just absurd, as is the highly inefficient ventilation system, as is the individual crematoria ovens, as is the tiny manually-operated elevator. The entire design is very inefficient although you seem to think that because it could be claimed to be less inefficient that somehow makes it valid. LOL

Having the pellets already there and then lead the victims in would as well not be suitable as the gas would escape the door and that panic would spread as the victims would notice the effects of the gas (unless they could somehow magically get all the people in at the same time). Also, there was no need for warming up the gas as the bodies of the victims did that for them.

Nope, the device opens the Zyklon-B canister [like a can opener] and then pours the pellets down that oblique shaft on the top right, into the bottom part where the hot air is blown onto it.
The Zyklon-B canister could easily be added before any Jew is in the room, and it could be hidden, and then a button outside the room could be pushed after all the Jews are shoved in.

I think the official narrative is that 800 to 1000 people were gassed at the same time?

I don't know what is "Official" anymore, it varies so widely. Hoess claims far more.

For that they were using four cans of Zyklon-B (one in each hole if I remember correctly), I don't know what the bullets would cost, but given that there was a World War I guess they would be needed there in actual life or death situations rather than killing innocent people, that aside I think that 1000 bullets would be more expensive than four cans of Zyklon-B, that's only my opinion though, the official narrative is that the germans needed a indirect method of killing the jews and thus constructed gas vans, since the germans had psychological problems with executing that many innocent people (including of course children and women).

Nope, bullets were/are absurdly cheap. The only people who run out of bullets are soldiers who are only carrying a limited amount.

Here is some info on Zyklon-B orders and prices:
Image

It was 2.50 RM to $1 USD around 1940. Dr. Tesch stated at his trial that far more Zyklon-B could have been used there.

There is a reason why in all sorts of claimed or real genocides in history, in absolutely no case except the so-called "Holocaust" was it claimed that people were killed en masse in homicidal gas chambers. It's just highly inefficient. Usually starvation and/or bullets are used.

There were many of the sonderkommando that dragged the people out of the gas chambers, I haven't heard of any conveyor belt structure, I guess the Nazi's just decided to use the jews as a "conveyor belt".

It would have been extremely dangerous for this to occur, they would not be able to touch the bodies without being poisoned themselves; many alleged witnesses claim no sorts of protective gear. The absurd & weak ventilation system would have required many hours for the chamber to be safe enough for any sonderkommando to pull out the corpses. And where would they have been stored while waiting for the ovens to open up?

Here is an example of an individual who committed suicide in 1998 with a cyanide capsule:
Case of cyanide poisoning of student in suicide / properties of HCN
viewtopic.php?t=12784

So, the individual took a pill full of cyanide but, the article states:
"Toxic fumes produced when a college student from Orange County died of an apparent suicide Monday forced the evacuation of an Iowa dormitory and the hospitalization of nine people, authorities said...
Four paramedics who responded to the call at Younkers Hall came in contact with fumes from the poison, as did two college staff members and three other students."


The quantity of Zyklon-B needed for alleged homicidal gas chambers would be very large because of the slow out-gassing. After the individuals died, the place would still be full of HCN air, soaking into their skin. Once they are pulled out the HCN would be "evaporating" into the air wherever they are at, endangering everyone. If the pellets got wet they could not be pulled out of the mesh column. Whomever grabs one of these gassed corpses is going to get ill because the cyanide will soak into their skin as well. It's just a completely ridiculous story.

That is why the conveyor belt structure would be so efficient, the Germans could have designed something of that sort, perhaps with a very large "meat grinder" or rather large livestock carcass disposal system.

Maybe like this but larger, and have the floor of the gas chamber open up afterwards:
Image

Something like this but larger: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ueMkKNpCXlo

Or like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tz9Lnvtbi4A

No, I'm not looking at this from some blank perspective, that's true, but I don't find more sense to your perspective to be honest, and the holocaust narrative is available for anyone and has been for decades, arguments get refined from both directions and at this point I trust the official narrative more than the revisionists narrative, it's as simple as that.

I just know I could make a far better "extermination camp" than Auschwitz. There are too many inefficiencies here.
The arguments getting "refined" is just a bunch of cherry picking actually

I do take revisionists seriously though, the prussian blue leaking through the entire wall of the delousing chamber did make me wonder, which is why I started the first thread on this forum in the first place. I think debate is important and can be, and has been, of value for the understanding of the holocaust.

Yes, the lack of cyanide in the walls just shows how these places were not used to murder hundreds of thousands with Zyklon-B.

Some things are impossible because of the laws of physics and chemistry prevent it from occurring in this reality. Some things, like a bunch of people lying in a very similar way, seem improbable but actually are not impossible at all. And a good liar with many resources would try very hard to make it appear as though the alternative (the truth in this case) would be very improbable.
"There is a principal which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments, and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance -- that principal is contempt prior to investigation."
-- Herbert Spencer

User avatar
Hannover
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 9999
Joined: Sun Nov 24, 2002 7:53 pm

Re: Germar Rudolf demolishes the alleged Zyklon-B 'Kula Columns'

Postby Hannover » 4 months 2 weeks ago (Sun Nov 17, 2019 9:17 pm)

Pon, some points:

Why have you dodged Germar Rudolf's points, which are the subject of this thread?

The claims by 'The Industry' is that 2000 were gassed per batch. They say it, not Revisionists

Why are the alleged 1.25M human remains of Jews, plus the alleged 1M or so remains of others that are claimed to exist at Auschwitz, simply not there?

Alleged “ash pond” for an alleged 1.25M Jew remains at Auschwitz, however these alleged remains cannot be shown to exist.
Image

Also see the alleged Auschwitz homicidal gassing process reviewed and demolished here:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11143&p=83723&hilit=model+asmarques#p83723

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

Pon
Member
Member
Posts: 25
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2019 10:09 am

Re: Germar Rudolf demolishes the alleged Zyklon-B 'Kula Columns'

Postby Pon » 4 months 2 weeks ago (Mon Nov 18, 2019 8:20 am)

Hannover wrote:Pon, some points:

Why have you dodged Germar Rudolf's points, which are the subject of this thread?

The claims by 'The Industry' is that 2000 were gassed per batch. They say it, not Revisionists

Why are the alleged 1.25M human remains of Jews, plus the alleged 1M or so remains of others that are claimed to exist at Auschwitz, simply not there?

Alleged “ash pond” for an alleged 1.25M Jew remains at Auschwitz, however these alleged remains cannot be shown to exist.
Image

Also see the alleged Auschwitz homicidal gassing process reviewed and demolished here:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11143&p=83723&hilit=model+asmarques#p83723

- Hannover
I'm not dodging anything, I'm responding to Lamprecht's post (from the aerial photos thread) in this thread since it is the appropriate thread. For whatever reason that post just was next in line in my priority list since I didn't need to do much research (he asked for my opinion). I have a lot to do recently so I can't devote much time to this presently unfortunately. I will probably respond to the specific issue of this thread in the near future though.

Pon
Member
Member
Posts: 25
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2019 10:09 am

Re: Germar Rudolf demolishes the alleged Zyklon-B 'Kula Columns'

Postby Pon » 4 months 2 weeks ago (Mon Nov 18, 2019 8:25 am)

Why are the alleged 1.25M human remains of Jews, plus the alleged 1M or so remains of others that are claimed to exist at Auschwitz, simply not there?
There's ashes all around the place, the ground is basically saturated with ashes. Also, ashes were dumped at rivers and the likes where the remains is probably there still. You wouldn't expect "mountains" of ash or anything like that, the germans made sure to cover the tracks (as much as possible).

Pon
Member
Member
Posts: 25
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2019 10:09 am

Re: Germar Rudolf demolishes the alleged Zyklon-B 'Kula Columns'

Postby Pon » 4 months 2 weeks ago (Mon Nov 18, 2019 9:14 am)

Lamprecht wrote:
Pon wrote:Given what I know about the columns I would have used the columns, in order to be able to extract the pellets that haven't evaporated making it safe sooner to extract the victims.

Well then, now you have a totally reasonable explanation as to why many people, even if they were lying, would have included such columns. Therefore, the argument "Well multiple people said it, therefore it must be true" is very weak, as it is an obvious detail that would usually be included. It should be noted that some who claimed to have witnessed the gassings made no mention of these sorts of things. Others who claimed to have witnessed mass exterminations argued something other than homicidal gas chambers. Naturally, those that do not correspond to the "official story" would be quietly ignored in favor of the others, so as to make it seem like there is a consensus when there actually is not.
Actually I think I would expect other structures as well, wire mesh columns is specific enough not to be made up of necessessity, and the details are unspecific enough as not to be collaborated. In my humble opinion, of course.


As far as I know, only the ones that could actually see the columns described them, other witnesses seems to think that the gas came from the shower heads (which is also what I would have thought if I made it up, and what I did think until recently, lol). That the columns differ in the details is something expected with truthful witnesses, that the details would be exactly the same is a give-away for a set of untruthful witnesses all telling the same preconceived story.

Many make no mention of columns and those who do argue to have witnessed them give vastly different descriptions about them. This has been explained here: viewtopic.php?t=12767
There could be many reasons not mentioning them, maybe they simply didn't see them or notice them? It is a possibility as well that the columns weren't there at the time the witnesses were, we simply don't know enough to know the reason why some people didn't report seeing them.


I don't think the victims first thought would be to pee on the columns, rather to get as far away from them as possible. At least when noticing that people close to the columns starts to die quicker than people further away.

Well maybe they would be vomiting and all that silliness if the story was true. Anyway, the whole point about the columns was so that they could supposedly be extracted, but once they get wet they will be sticky and this would be very difficult to do.
They would bring up the entire inner column, hence any stickiness is irrelevant.

In order to spread the gas evenly through the room it makes sense to have four introduction places evenly in the roof rather than a one point source, also the "contraption" used in the delousing chambers would require them to go inside the gas chamber to put the pellets there, which wouldn't be suitable with a room full of people.

It could be very simply modified so that would not be necessary. Think of a wall with an opening at the bottom, covered with mesh. There is no way that anyone could break through it and get to the device and stop it. The hot air + a fan would force the pellets to outgas quickly and disperse the air all throughout the chamber. There could have been a door/window right there which could be opened by the guards and the Zyklon-B canister inserted, the device turned on (or even a button to turn on the device outside of the room) and then it would work. There's many ways to get around this silliness. Pouring the granules down a column is just absurd, as is the highly inefficient ventilation system, as is the individual crematoria ovens, as is the tiny manually-operated elevator. The entire design is very inefficient although you seem to think that because it could be claimed to be less inefficient that somehow makes it valid. LOL
There are many could have's there, I think they had to keep it simple and make as little changes to the existing structures as possible. The columns seems complicated but were probably pretty simple to make, having a delousing device (can we agree to call it that? I have no idea of it's official name) would make a bigger documental imprint that constructing something simpler themselves, and be more expensive. The camps didn't get much funding, it was seemingly difficult to get permissions (argued somewhere in the Irving - Deborah Trial, I have to look up where, the trial transcripts are a mess and I guess I have to read through the lot), the extermination was expected to pay for itself as far as possible.


Having the pellets already there and then lead the victims in would as well not be suitable as the gas would escape the door and that panic would spread as the victims would notice the effects of the gas (unless they could somehow magically get all the people in at the same time). Also, there was no need for warming up the gas as the bodies of the victims did that for them.

Nope, the device opens the Zyklon-B canister [like a can opener] and then pours the pellets down that oblique shaft on the top right, into the bottom part where the hot air is blown onto it.
The Zyklon-B canister could easily be added before any Jew is in the room, and it could be hidden, and then a button outside the room could be pushed after all the Jews are shoved in.
Ok, I definitely don't know much about the "delousing device", I can only suspect that there was a reason for not using it, maybe the above documental argument, or that it wouldn't be effecient in such a big room.


I think the official narrative is that 800 to 1000 people were gassed at the same time?

I don't know what is "Official" anymore, it varies so widely. Hoess claims far more.
I got the figure 2000 from Hannover, I have to look it up, I do remember seeing the figure 800 to 1000 a lot of times though.


For that they were using four cans of Zyklon-B (one in each hole if I remember correctly), I don't know what the bullets would cost, but given that there was a World War I guess they would be needed there in actual life or death situations rather than killing innocent people, that aside I think that 1000 bullets would be more expensive than four cans of Zyklon-B, that's only my opinion though, the official narrative is that the germans needed a indirect method of killing the jews and thus constructed gas vans, since the germans had psychological problems with executing that many innocent people (including of course children and women).

Nope, bullets were/are absurdly cheap. The only people who run out of bullets are soldiers who are only carrying a limited amount.

Here is some info on Zyklon-B orders and prices:
Image

It was 2.50 RM to $1 USD around 1940. Dr. Tesch stated at his trial that far more Zyklon-B could have been used there.

There is a reason why in all sorts of claimed or real genocides in history, in absolutely no case except the so-called "Holocaust" was it claimed that people were killed en masse in homicidal gas chambers. It's just highly inefficient. Usually starvation and/or bullets are used.
Both starvation and bullets were used, as I said; the official narrative is that the germans got psychological problems killing people through shooting them (I recall a rise of alcoholism mentioned). Starvation is a relatively slow process and inevitably leads to revolts, there's no reason to strive greater than hunger. The germans would starve them at a slow pace making a natural death rate though, without making them loose hope, in fact they paid the prisoners if they worked and the camp had their own money that they could trade for bread or even cigarettes. That way prisoners worked to their death (which was another form of extermination agenda).

There were many of the sonderkommando that dragged the people out of the gas chambers, I haven't heard of any conveyor belt structure, I guess the Nazi's just decided to use the jews as a "conveyor belt".

It would have been extremely dangerous for this to occur, they would not be able to touch the bodies without being poisoned themselves; many alleged witnesses claim no sorts of protective gear. The absurd & weak ventilation system would have required many hours for the chamber to be safe enough for any sonderkommando to pull out the corpses. And where would they have been stored while waiting for the ovens to open up?

Here is an example of an individual who committed suicide in 1998 with a cyanide capsule:
Case of cyanide poisoning of student in suicide / properties of HCN
viewtopic.php?t=12784

So, the individual took a pill full of cyanide but, the article states:
"Toxic fumes produced when a college student from Orange County died of an apparent suicide Monday forced the evacuation of an Iowa dormitory and the hospitalization of nine people, authorities said...
Four paramedics who responded to the call at Younkers Hall came in contact with fumes from the poison, as did two college staff members and three other students."


The quantity of Zyklon-B needed for alleged homicidal gas chambers would be very large because of the slow out-gassing. After the individuals died, the place would still be full of HCN air, soaking into their skin. Once they are pulled out the HCN would be "evaporating" into the air wherever they are at, endangering everyone. If the pellets got wet they could not be pulled out of the mesh column. Whomever grabs one of these gassed corpses is going to get ill because the cyanide will soak into their skin as well. It's just a completely ridiculous story.

That is why the conveyor belt structure would be so efficient, the Germans could have designed something of that sort, perhaps with a very large "meat grinder" or rather large livestock carcass disposal system.

Maybe like this but larger, and have the floor of the gas chamber open up afterwards:
Image

Something like this but larger: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ueMkKNpCXlo

Or like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tz9Lnvtbi4A
There could be pockets of gas in-between the victims, the sonderkommando often got ill after dragging out the corpses. Merely touching the body of the victims wouldn't do anything though, gasses being absorbed through the skin doesn't get "evaporated", I'll get back to you on that though. Through the little chemistry I know I do know that there aren't any evaporation after being absorbed by the skin though. I think I read that the first of the sonderkommando that went in to the gas chamber had gas masks.

It is probably standard procedure to evacuate and treat anyone that has been in contact with dangerous gasses. I don't think the nazis cared much for the sonderkommando and their health. Obviously a gassing incident in a normal society is very much different.



No, I'm not looking at this from some blank perspective, that's true, but I don't find more sense to your perspective to be honest, and the holocaust narrative is available for anyone and has been for decades, arguments get refined from both directions and at this point I trust the official narrative more than the revisionists narrative, it's as simple as that.

I just know I could make a far better "extermination camp" than Auschwitz. There are too many inefficiencies here.
The arguments getting "refined" is just a bunch of cherry picking actually
I mostly see casting doubts about things, no real evidence against the holocaust. Reality isn't ideal and perfect, the reality of the camp and their situation one way or another necessitated what they did. However inefficient it may seem to us now. Wouldn't the supposed "collaborators" that made up the "myth" have given a much more efficient explanation if they made it up?


I do take revisionists seriously though, the prussian blue leaking through the entire wall of the delousing chamber did make me wonder, which is why I started the first thread on this forum in the first place. I think debate is important and can be, and has been, of value for the understanding of the holocaust.

Yes, the lack of cyanide in the walls just shows how these places were not used to murder hundreds of thousands with Zyklon-B.

Some things are impossible because of the laws of physics and chemistry prevent it from occurring in this reality. Some things, like a bunch of people lying in a very similar way, seem improbable but actually are not impossible at all. And a good liar with many resources would try very hard to make it appear as though the alternative (the truth in this case) would be very improbable.
The lack of cyanide (not a total lack though mind you) probably have to be covered in a different thread (trying to follow the rules here lol - it's not as easy as you might think, they are really strict in this forum <---just my reflection, not a different point I need to start a thread about). Our opinions differ in the regard that reality and physics doesn't support the official narrative which probably also belongs in a different thread (?).

User avatar
Hannover
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 9999
Joined: Sun Nov 24, 2002 7:53 pm

Re: Germar Rudolf demolishes the alleged Zyklon-B 'Kula Columns'

Postby Hannover » 4 months 2 weeks ago (Mon Nov 18, 2019 11:05 am)

Pon wrote:
Why are the alleged 1.25M human remains of Jews, plus the alleged 1M or so remains of others that are claimed to exist at Auschwitz, simply not there?
There's ashes all around the place, the ground is basically saturated with ashes. Also, ashes were dumped at rivers and the likes where the remains is probably there still. You wouldn't expect "mountains" of ash or anything like that, the germans made sure to cover the tracks (as much as possible).

What ashes?
Please show them. Please show us a forensic study that proves there are human ashes "all around".

You say " the germans made sure to cover the tracks (as much as possible", yet you claim the Germans left "ashes all around". LOL
You claim the German left 'gas chambers; still intact, hardly 'covering their tracts'.

You and those like you want it both ways, first you say the Germans tried to hide everything, then you say the 'holocaust' storyline is proven by massive German physical evidence & documents ... none of which can be shown.

- Hannover

Only lies require censorship.
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

User avatar
borjastick
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 2588
Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2011 5:52 am
Location: Europe

Re: Germar Rudolf demolishes the alleged Zyklon-B 'Kula Columns'

Postby borjastick » 4 months 2 weeks ago (Mon Nov 18, 2019 12:29 pm)

There's ashes all around the place, the ground is basically saturated with ashes.
- Pon

Really? If the ground was really saturated in ashes the jewish management team wouldn't allow anyone to walk on them or even touch these remains. It would be along the lines of the Caroline Sturdy Colls debacle at Treblinka some years ago when the chief rabbi of Poland told her and her team when about to start excavating that should she find any human remains she must stop digging at once.

Maybe the ashes you refer to at Auschwitz are those in the pond in which Professor Jacob Bronowski stood up to his ankles in water and declared 'into this pond were flushed the ashes on 4m jews' or words very similar. 4m I tell you. Oops, the number amazingly dropped to about 1m total dead in the camps of Auschwitz. Still with little or no proof mind you.

The reality is Pon, that there are no ashes, in heaps, mounds, pits, mass graves or burning trenches. If they had them they would have made whoopee for the past 75 years. And that's not because they were used as fertiliser or flushed away in ponds or rivers, no it's because they didn't exist in the first place.

Yes people died at Auschwitz; the official records show that Catholics were the highest death toll group. Whenever I discuss the topic of the holocaust with someone it inevitably gets to the thorny question of numbers. I have to say I don't have a strong feeling or a fixed figure in mind. Common sense would dictate that the Red Cross numbers are probably about in the ball park. That would mean that Auschwitz had a total death toll in the region of 250,000 + - 20% in my view.
'Of the four million Jews under Nazi control in WW2, six million died and alas only five million survived.'

'We don't need evidence, we have survivors' - israeli politician

User avatar
Hannover
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 9999
Joined: Sun Nov 24, 2002 7:53 pm

Re: Germar Rudolf demolishes the alleged Zyklon-B 'Kula Columns'

Postby Hannover » 4 months 2 weeks ago (Mon Nov 18, 2019 1:17 pm)

borjastick said:
Common sense would dictate that the Red Cross numbers are probably about in the ball park. That would mean that Auschwitz had a total death toll in the region of 250,000 + - 20% in my view.

correction:

That is the Red Cross number for ALL sites.

Per official registers captured by the Soviets, 69,000 died at Auschwitz, a couple of those Soviet seized registers are now curiously 'missing'.

see:
Pages from the Auschwitz Death Registry Volumes
Long-Hidden Death Certificates Discredit Extermination Claims

https://codoh.com/library/document/2375/?lang=en

Regards, Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

User avatar
Lamprecht
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 1576
Joined: Sun Nov 30, 2008 6:32 pm

Re: Germar Rudolf demolishes the alleged Zyklon-B 'Kula Columns'

Postby Lamprecht » 4 months 2 weeks ago (Mon Nov 18, 2019 6:37 pm)

Pon wrote:Actually I think I would expect other structures as well, wire mesh columns is specific enough not to be made up of necessessity, and the details are unspecific enough as not to be collaborated. In my humble opinion, of course.

The wire mesh columns are not claimed by most alleged witnesses. And it would have been extraordinarily simple to coax or influence any of the alleged eyewitnesses in the trials. These people did not walk in the trial off the street and give testimony, they spoke with allied officials before they provided their claims. Multiple people telling the same lie does not give it any more credibility. There are numerous eyewitnesses who claim no gassings occurred at Auschwitz, which you ignore because it's inconvenient for you. The point anyway is that "Eyewitness testimony" due to its weak & easily fabricated nature, plus the various contradictions in these testimonies, means that we can not reasonably conclude from the testimonies alone whether or not these alleged columns existed. There is no documentary evidence of these columns, there is no physical evidence of the columns, it is only a handful of "testimonies" which are quite simple to fabricate. The fact that you find them so convincing is all the reason one would need to understand why they would have went through the trouble to procure so many of these false testimonies.

There could be many reasons not mentioning them, maybe they simply didn't see them or notice them? It is a possibility as well that the columns weren't there at the time the witnesses were, we simply don't know enough to know the reason why some people didn't report seeing them.

There are many reasons why someone would mention them even though they did not actually see them:
- Revenge against those who caused them or their family suffering
- Being coaxed into making these lies by the allies
- False memories

Eyewitness testimony is the weakest form of evidence. If we are to use your logic, then extraterrestrials often abduct humans and bigfoot is actually real

They would bring up the entire inner column, hence any stickiness is irrelevant.

Contradicted by many testimonies, you just pick and choose what you want to accept.

There are many could have's there, I think they had to keep it simple and make as little changes to the existing structures as possible.

So now you are backing up and saying, in contrast to the air photo thread, that they did not intend the room to initially be a homicidal gas chamber but only after it was built they decided on that purpose?

. The columns seems complicated but were probably pretty simple to make, having a delousing device (can we agree to call it that? I have no idea of it's official name) would make a bigger documental imprint that constructing something simpler themselves, and be more expensive.

The columns don't seem complicated at all, and there is no documentation for it whatsoever. The only document you found isn't even describing that and isn't even referring to the correct room. There would be no documental imprint they could just destroy it, and you certainly make that argument whenever you have no documents.

The camps didn't get much funding, it was seemingly difficult to get permissions (argued somewhere in the Irving - Deborah Trial, I have to look up where, the trial transcripts are a mess and I guess I have to read through the lot), the extermination was expected to pay for itself as far as possible.

The Zyklon-B heating device is not so complicated either. It is also claimed in some instances that the Nazis focused more on exterminating jews than on the war effort. The fact of the matter is that they deported Jews half-way across Europe just to go to Auschwitz to be shoved into gas chambers. Shooting them on the spot was far more effective. The only reason to put so many resources into transferring them around would be if they were to be used for labor, or if they were to be resettled [interned in the meantime] rather than killed. There is no reason to ship people half-way across Europe to be shoved into ridiculous "Gas chambers" with inefficient ventilation systems (worse than the undressing room) and then cremated in individual ovens. No other alleged genocide in history used anywhere comparable of a method because it's insane, highly ineffective.

Ok, I definitely don't know much about the "delousing device", I can only suspect that there was a reason for not using it, maybe the above documental argument, or that it wouldn't be effecient in such a big room.


It is far more efficient than just dumping crystals into the room.

Here is the evaporation rate of Zyklon B at 20°C [68°F]:
Image

At other temperatures:
Image

The sources for the images can be found here in this post where believer "Wyatt" got shredded: viewtopic.php?p=93737#p93737

That is why it was so important for the hot air to be blown on the crystals for delousing even though the process would take a day or so. Keep in mind these buildings were underground and in Poland so the temperature could have been quite cold at times. As you can see at 20°C over 2/3 is still stuck in the carrier material after half of an hour. And if those crystals get wet or if they are on top of one another it will go even slower. The whole thing is silly, that is why they would have used a device to blow hot air onto the crystals.

There could be pockets of gas in-between the victims, the sonderkommando often got ill after dragging out the corpses. Merely touching the body of the victims wouldn't do anything though, gasses being absorbed through the skin doesn't get "evaporated", I'll get back to you on that though.

Touching the bodies would poison anyone. You have ignored the article by a person who took a **CYANIDE PILL** and multiple people got sick and the entire dormitory building had to be evacuated because of the **TOXIC FUMES** that resulted after he swallowed it down his throat. HCN is highly soluble in water and all of these gassed jews covered in sweat would have that sweat permeated with HCN, soaked into their skin. Anyone that touches them would be poisoned. These bodies being piled in some place it would be full of toxic HCN fumes rather quickly. The entire story is absurd, and further there is absolutely no physical evidence to substantiate it, just contradictory "eyewitness testimony" which is the easiest thing to fake.

Through the little chemistry I know I do know that there aren't any evaporation after being absorbed by the skin though. I think I read that the first of the sonderkommando that went in to the gas chamber had gas masks.

Gas masks are not even efficient enough and also would make breathing more difficult, so the strenuous job would be much harder to do. A sonderkommando would need his entire body covered because it would penetrate into his skin if he is sweating and he would be if he is carrying so many of those bodies. Those sonderkommando were probably bodybuilders by the end of it, if the story was true. Just go get some 100 lb waits and drag them around back and forth across a room, it would require immense manpower to empty these gas chambers.

Rudolf Hoess, who you somehow think is reliable, claimed that gas masks were not used.

And this is besides the fact that there is no reason to believe that these jew Sonderkommando would be OK with just killing so many thousands of their fellow jews, not trying to constantly cause disorder. And then we have the issue of all of these supposed witnesses to the gassing process being allowed to live, even though supposedly sonderkommando were killed every four months.

It is probably standard procedure to evacuate and treat anyone that has been in contact with dangerous gasses. I don't think the nazis cared much for the sonderkommando and their health. Obviously a gassing incident in a normal society is very much different.

No, these people would have went in to pull out the bodies and quickly would have gotten ill and started vomiting and whatnot. The entire situation is ridiclous. If it was indeed true they would been wearing full body protective gear and gask masks the entire time, and that's something they would have been explicit about in every single instance. If you spent many weeks pulling out bodies emitting toxic fumes covered in HCN-saturated sweat, if you got ill one time by touching them you would remember to put on that protective gear every single time. You would have remembered how hot and sweaty you got every single time by pulling out those bodies in all of that gear.

These people are liars, plain and simple. It's not unbelievable at all that someone would lie. If someone put a gun to your head and said you must either force people into gas chambers and pull them out 100s of times, or lie and say that you did it [with no consequences] while simulatenously getting revenge on your enemy, which would you rather do? Lies are a dime a dozen.

I mostly see casting doubts about things, no real evidence against the holocaust. Reality isn't ideal and perfect, the reality of the camp and their situation one way or another necessitated what they did.

The utter lack of physical evidence which would necessarily exist is undeniable proof that the "Holocaust" is a hoax. Anyone can lie, it's easy. To fabricate massive quantites of physical evidence is extremely difficult if not impossible.

YOU have provided no real evidence, just repetitions of shaky evidence of the same kind [testimony], the weakest form of evidence at all. All of the documents on the "Final Solution" agree it is not an extermination policy, including diary entries: viewtopic.php?t=12296

You have been challenged to show the alleged massive quantities of human remains. At Auschwitz, the records show 70,000 dead but these are incomplete, it is probably more like 80-100 thousand. So we know human remains must exist there. You make the excuse that the remains were dumped in the river, very convenient...

But at Treblinka, Sobibor, and Belzec between 1.5-2 million people are supposedly burned in open air pyres and buried in huge mass graves in exactly known locations. Each of these 3places was excavated in the past decade or so.
I urge you to make a thread showing photographic evidence of just 0.1% of the alleged remains claimed to exist there. THAT is the real evidence you should be providing.

However inefficient it may seem to us now. Wouldn't the supposed "collaborators" that made up the "myth" have given a much more efficient explanation if they made it up?

They were stuck with what they had. They had a mortuary cellar / bomb shelter. There was no place for the Zyklon-B device to be placed. They had to choose some sort of building as the scapegoat, naturally it would be the one right near the crematoria. It is likely that they [the Allies] did not know too much about Zyklon-B, but they certainly had access to the documents on the safety precautions. Probably they had some leftover cans they could use themselves to see how it works. It doesn't really matter, since they could just get 5-10 witnesses to repeat whatever they wanted them to say and that would be enough proof for many people. After the fact if it was found out to be a lie, so what? The revenge is complete, the Germans were convicted of war crimes already, it's over.

The lack of cyanide (not a total lack though mind you) probably have to be covered in a different thread (trying to follow the rules here lol - it's not as easy as you might think, they are really strict in this forum <---just my reflection, not a different point I need to start a thread about). Our opinions differ in the regard that reality and physics doesn't support the official narrative which probably also belongs in a different thread (?).

You already made a thread about that, it was your first.

What is physically impossible is to murder millions of people and bury them in "HUGE MASS GRAVES" that can not be excavated. You have been challenged to show the human remains claimed to exist in exactly known locations at:
- Belzec
- Sobibor
- Treblinka

Also, you have argued that there are massive human remains at Auschwitz. Since revisionists point out the documentation argues 80-100 thousand died at Auschwitz, you must show that the quantity of remains is inconsistent with that position. Perhaps try this thread, or make another:

Cremated remains, bone ash, and water-solubility // the [Auschwitz] ash ponds
viewtopic.php?t=12278
Last edited by Lamprecht on Mon Nov 18, 2019 6:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"There is a principal which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments, and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance -- that principal is contempt prior to investigation."
-- Herbert Spencer

User avatar
Lamprecht
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 1576
Joined: Sun Nov 30, 2008 6:32 pm

Re: Germar Rudolf demolishes the alleged Zyklon-B 'Kula Columns'

Postby Lamprecht » 4 months 2 weeks ago (Mon Nov 18, 2019 6:46 pm)

Pon wrote:You wouldn't expect "mountains" of ash or anything like that, the germans made sure to cover the tracks (as much as possible).

At Treblinka, Sobibor, and Belzec it is claimed that the burnt remains of 1.5-2 million jews exists in exactly known locations. They were not cremated in ovens, but rather burned in giant outdoor pyres.

From Yitzhak Arad’s book - BELZEC, SOBIBOR, TREBLINKA - (chapter 23) - The Erasure of the Crimes:
"The camp command was confronted with the problem of disposing of the large piles of ash and bits of bone that remained… Ultimately it was decided to dump the ash and bits of bone into the ditches that had previously held the bodies and to cover them with a thick layer of sand and dirt… [Eyewitness] Abraham Goldfarb relates: …’we secretly placed in the walls of the graves whole skeletons and we wrote on scraps of paper what the Germans were doing at Treblinka. We put the scraps of paper into bottles, which we placed next to the skeletons. Our intention was that if one day someone looked for traces, they could indeed be found.’"

Please show us just 0.1% of the alleged human remains claimed to exist at Treblinka, Sobibor, or Belzec. I recommend you make another thread on the subject.

camp - # dead - qty of remains expected
Belzec - 600,000 - over 4.3 million pounds
Sobibor - 250,000 - over 1.8 million pounds
Treblinka - 900,000 - over 6.5 million pounds

As you see, combined this greatly exceeds the alleged dead at Auschwitz, and it is not supposedly "poured into a river" but buried in exactly known spots, down to the meter. Each of these camps has allegedly been excavated in the past decade. Please show us photographic evidence of just 0.1% of the alleged human remains claimed to exist in EXACTLY KNOWN LOCATIONS.

All of this nonsense about eyewitness testimony is getting tiring. Anyone can lie about whatever they want; it is not reasonable to selectively choose parts of testimonies that you like and ignore the absurdities in the rest of it. And if you choose to rely so heavily on testimony it is wrong to totally discount the large numbers of testimony that contradict the story, especially when they do not make absurd and physically impossible claims.

This is your chance to provide actual physical evidence to support the "Holocaust" story, which you have consistently failed to do so far
"There is a principal which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments, and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance -- that principal is contempt prior to investigation."
-- Herbert Spencer


Return to “'Holocaust' Debate / Controversies / Comments / News”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Daniel Briske and 5 guests