Challenge to supporters of the "transit camp" theory

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roberto
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Challenge to supporters of the "transit camp" theory

Postby roberto » 2 weeks 22 hours ago (Tue Jul 11, 2017 9:21 am)

Revisionists, most notably Mattogno, Graf and Kues, claim that Chelmno, Belzec, Sobibór and Treblinka, places known by history to have been extermination camps, were mere transit camps, places where arriving deportees were bathed, had themselves and/or their clothing deloused, were perhaps given a hot meal or drink and then sent onwards to final destinations in the Nazi-occupied territories of the USSR east of such camps, where they were resettled in camps or ghettos.

The numbers that Revisionists claim to have been transited through these camps is enormous. The Korherr Report alone, which Revisionists claim must be understood literally in this respect (notwithstanding evidence that Korherr was instructed to use a certain wording to avoid mention of "special treatment" and that he knew he was writing about mass murder, see my blog article under http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.pt/2007/04/richard-i-didnt-know-korherr.html), mentions 1,274,166 Jews transited to the "Russian East" through "the camps in the General Government" (mainly Bełżec, Sobibór and Treblinka, as we know now from the Höfle telegram) and 145,301 Jews transited to the "Russian East" through "the camps in the Warthegau" (obviously Chełmno/Kulmhof), until the end of 1942. So a total of 1,419,467 persons are supposed to have been transited to the "Russian East" in this period through these camps alone, instead of being killed at these camps as all known evidence shows them to have been.

Some of the deportees supposedly transported via these camps to the "Russian East" would doubtlessly have succumbed to hardship on the journey or at the place of destination, but most would have survived the war and returned to their places of origin or emigrated after the war. Their names would have been recorded by administrative authorities, and there would have been no reason for the Nazis to destroy any part of the huge paper trail that this gigantic resettlement operation would have created (on the contrary, all this documentation would have been their best safeguard against accusations that they had murdered these people). The deportees would have been seen along the route and at the place of final destination by a great many people, including but not limited to those in charge of transporting and accommodating them and the local population. From such witnesses, but especially from the surviving deportees themselves, there should be thousands upon thousands of accounts narrating their experiences. Having been subject to persecution by the Nazi government, the many surviving deportees, or at least a substantial part of them, would have filed compensation claims with the German Federal Republic after the war. There would be records about their return home or their emigration, and there would be records about their later whereabouts.

From all these accounts and documentation, names of deportees transited through Chełmno, Bełżec, Sobibór and Treblinka to the "Russian East" should be all over the place, and it should be a piece of cake to find such names and proof that their bearers were transited through these places.

My challenge to Revisionists is thus the following:

Please provide the name of at least one Jew that you can prove to have been transited via Chelmno, Belzec, Sobibór or Treblinka to what Korherr called the "Russian East", i.e. to a destination in the Reichskommissariat Ostland, the [I]Reichskommissariat Ukraine or the Soviet territories under German military administration[/b]. By "transited" I mean that the person in question must have been taken to the respective camp (Chelmno, Belzec, Sobibór or Treblinka), then shipped from that camp to a certain destination in the Nazi-occupied territories of the Soviet Union as defined above, e.g. to Minsk, Riga, Kovno or Kiev.

One name, with proof.

Just one name.



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Re: Challenge to supporters of the "transit camp" theory

Postby CWhite » 2 weeks 17 hours ago (Tue Jul 11, 2017 1:41 pm)

roberto wrote:Revisionists, most notably Mattogno, Graf and Kues, claim that Chelmno, Belzec, Sobibór and Treblinka, places known by history to have been extermination camps, were mere transit camps, places where arriving deportees were bathed, had themselves and/or their clothing deloused, were perhaps given a hot meal or drink and then sent onwards to final destinations in the Nazi-occupied territories of the USSR east of such camps, where they were resettled in camps or ghettos.

The numbers that Revisionists claim to have been transited through these camps is enormous. The Korherr Report alone, which Revisionists claim must be understood literally in this respect (notwithstanding evidence that Korherr was instructed to use a certain wording to avoid mention of "special treatment" and that he knew he was writing about mass murder, see my blog article under http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.pt/2007/04/richard-i-didnt-know-korherr.html), mentions 1,274,166 Jews transited to the "Russian East" through "the camps in the General Government" (mainly Bełżec, Sobibór and Treblinka, as we know now from the Höfle telegram) and 145,301 Jews transited to the "Russian East" through "the camps in the Warthegau" (obviously Chełmno/Kulmhof), until the end of 1942. So a total of 1,419,467 persons are supposed to have been transited to the "Russian East" in this period through these camps alone, instead of being killed at these camps as all known evidence shows them to have been.

Some of the deportees supposedly transported via these camps to the "Russian East" would doubtlessly have succumbed to hardship on the journey or at the place of destination, but most would have survived the war and returned to their places of origin or emigrated after the war. Their names would have been recorded by administrative authorities, and there would have been no reason for the Nazis to destroy any part of the huge paper trail that this gigantic resettlement operation would have created (on the contrary, all this documentation would have been their best safeguard against accusations that they had murdered these people). The deportees would have been seen along the route and at the place of final destination by a great many people, including but not limited to those in charge of transporting and accommodating them and the local population. From such witnesses, but especially from the surviving deportees themselves, there should be thousands upon thousands of accounts narrating their experiences. Having been subject to persecution by the Nazi government, the many surviving deportees, or at least a substantial part of them, would have filed compensation claims with the German Federal Republic after the war. There would be records about their return home or their emigration, and there would be records about their later whereabouts.

From all these accounts and documentation, names of deportees transited through Chełmno, Bełżec, Sobibór and Treblinka to the "Russian East" should be all over the place, and it should be a piece of cake to find such names and proof that their bearers were transited through these places.

My challenge to Revisionists is thus the following:

Please provide the name of at least one Jew that you can prove to have been transited via Chelmno, Belzec, Sobibór or Treblinka to what Korherr called the "Russian East", i.e. to a destination in the Reichskommissariat Ostland, the [I]Reichskommissariat Ukraine or the Soviet territories under German military administration[/b]. By "transited" I mean that the person in question must have been taken to the respective camp (Chelmno, Belzec, Sobibór or Treblinka), then shipped from that camp to a certain destination in the Nazi-occupied territories of the Soviet Union as defined above, e.g. to Minsk, Riga, Kovno or Kiev.

One name, with proof.

Just one name.



Here is Roberto quoted on another forum:


My challenge is the following:

I, Roberto Muehlenkamp, have at this moment a certain sum on a savings account, the existence of which I can prove and of which I am prepared to pay up to $ 4,000, $ 1,000 for each name, to the first Revisionist(s) who can provide, along with corresponding conclusive evidence, the names of up to 4 Jews who were transited through Chełmno, Bełżec, Sobibór or Treblinka (not necessarily one per camp, can be all four through one camp, two here and two there or any other combination) to the Nazi-occupied territories of the Soviet Union, i.e. the areas of what was then known as the Reichskommissariat Ostland, the Reichskommissariat Ukraine or the Soviet territories under German military administration, in the years 1942 or 1943. By transited I mean that the person in question must have been taken to the respective camp, then shipped from that camp to a certain destination in the Nazi-occupied territories of the Soviet Union as defined above, e.g. to Minsk, Riga, Kovno or Kiev.

...

This challenge is not meant to be written in stone. It will be changed from time to time as deemed necessary for its improvement.


And Roberto has been challenged to improve his challenge with the following:

New prologue for Roberto's disingenuous - Transit Camp Challenge:

The following challenge pertains specifically to the _?_ [number of] jews that - I CAN - prove actually set foot in Belzec, Chelmno, Sobibor and Treblinka II, but - I CAN NOT - prove were gassed and buried in said locations:


But Roberto is too chicken to make the change so as to make his disingenuous "challenge" a legitimate one.

Now isn't that a surprise?

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Re: Challenge to supporters of the "transit camp" theory

Postby Hannover » 2 weeks 17 hours ago (Tue Jul 11, 2017 2:09 pm)

Oh yawn, Roberto's "challenge" is so yesterday's newspaper.

Often the most ridiculous, illogical questions are best answered in the most direct manner:
If Jews are so sure that millions of Jews were murdered, then why do they ask such dumb questions like "what happened to them"?

This is just the old 'If the Jews were not gassed, then where did they go?' canard.

Jews claim they we all murdered and dumped into enormous mass graves.
So what were their names?
So where did all those people go? Where are the claimed mass graves for Roberto's "Chelmno, Belzec, Sobibór and Treblinka"?

Jews obviously went where Jews are. They were pouring out of Europe after the war, hence the Displaced Persons camps. They then poured into Palestine, S. America, the US, stayed in Europe, etc.
And imagine Jews who had been relocated into the USSR during the war trying to get out soon afterwards, fat chance. Recall the expression: "The Iron Curtain".
However, later, in the 1970s-80s so many 'holocausted' Jews were allowed to go to Palestine/Israel & the USA from the USSR.
The US Congress even passed legislation allowing them into the US without question, of course.

If the Germans supposedly 'tried to kill every Jew thy could get their hands on then why are there countless numbers of "survivors".
That is a huge & damning aspect to the '6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers' fraud.

The proof that Jews were shipped east to work sites other than "Chelmno, Belzec, Sobibór and Treblinka" is overwhelming.
see:
Evidence for the Presence of “Gassed” Jews in the Occupied Eastern Territories, Part 1
http://codoh.com/library/document/3111/?lang=en
and:
Evidence for the Presence of "Gassed" Jews in the Occupied Eastern Territories, Part 2
http://codoh.com/library/document/3127/?lang=en
and:
Evidence for the Presence of “Gassed” Jews in the Occupied Eastern Territories, Part 3
http://codoh.com/library/document/3166/?lang=en

Also search http://codoh.com/
transit camps for a veritable blizzard of work debunking the 'Jews were all killed' Big Lie.

And the fact that the outbound records has curiously gone 'missing' is also another nail in the 'holocau$t' coffin.
see:
J. Graf and the illogical canard: 'Where did Jews go then?' / & more
https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=8272
Lot's of "survivor" names.
also see:
'AR Survivors / Treblinka'
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6534

And Roberto, I introduce you to S. Rothstein:
'Translation of Short note on “The Central Database of Shoah Victims’ Names” and the number of deaths reported therein'
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10945

Image
The deportation of S. Rothstein (and many others); in dashed lines, the segment hidden by "holocau$t historians". :lol:

- Hannover

The 'holocaust' storyline is one of the most easily debunked narratives ever contrived. That is why those who question it are arrested and persecuted. That is why violent, racist, & privileged Jewish supremacists demand censorship. What sort of truth is it that denies free speech and the freedom to seek the truth? Truth needs no protection from scrutiny.
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: Challenge to supporters of the "transit camp" theory

Postby CWhite » 2 weeks 17 hours ago (Tue Jul 11, 2017 2:18 pm)

Where are the claimed mass graves for Roberto's "Chelmno, Belzec, Sobibór and Treblinka"?

Here is two of them:


Image


Photo shows the largest, in terms of both grave volume and quantity of remains, of the four so-called “huge mass graves” - ever - located / proven to exist at Belzec, Chelmno, Sobibor or Treblinka II.

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Re: Challenge to supporters of the "transit camp" theory

Postby borjastick » 2 weeks 16 hours ago (Tue Jul 11, 2017 2:53 pm)

And we know that many many trainloads of jews and others who were sent into Treblinka left on the same or a later train. This has been proven by those many witnesses who were filmed by Spielberg for his recording material and subsequent filmed record. Thus if these people left for other camps and were then sent to various camps in the network and survived it is entirely likely that many others went to other destinations. Plus we know that Treblinka was on the spur line just a few miles from Malkinia Junction which was a massive rail hub. People could well have been sent via Malkinia Junction to any number of destinations.

For proof that Treblinka was never an extermination camp one only needs to watch Caroline Sturdy Colls tv documentary. She really smashed it out of the park.
'Of the four million Jews under Nazi control in WW2, six million died and alas only five million survived.'

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Re: Challenge to supporters of the "transit camp" theory

Postby Hektor » 2 weeks 16 hours ago (Tue Jul 11, 2017 2:59 pm)

Nice of you to finally post again under your account here, Roberto.
roberto wrote:Revisionists,.....
My challenge to Revisionists is thus the following:

I guess, you got to do that, given that you can't name a single Jew that has been gassed in Auschwitz or the named camps. Or can you?

roberto wrote:Please provide the name of at least one Jew that you can prove to have been transited via Chelmno, Belzec, Sobibór or Treblinka to what Korherr called the "Russian East", i.e. to a destination in the Reichskommissariat Ostland, the [I]Reichskommissariat Ukraine or the Soviet territories under German military administration[/b]. By "transited" I mean that the person in question must have been taken to the respective camp (Chelmno, Belzec, Sobibór or Treblinka), then shipped from that camp to a certain destination in the Nazi-occupied territories of the Soviet Union as defined above, e.g. to Minsk, Riga, Kovno or Kiev.

One name, with proof.
...


Samuel Zoldan
Mikhail Zhustkovski
Maria Zhuravel
Iosif Zherman
Raisa Babendur
Froim Backer
Moysey Barán
Rita Baranov
Shlyoma Begun
Mikson Beniya

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Re: Challenge to supporters of the "transit camp" theory

Postby Mortimer » 2 weeks 16 hours ago (Tue Jul 11, 2017 3:08 pm)

Jan Karski was a member of the Polish underground and he said Belzec was a transit camp. He claimed to be a Pole and not a Jew but I think his comments are noteworthy -
http://codoh.com/library/document/3336/

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Re: Challenge to supporters of the "transit camp" theory

Postby roberto » 2 weeks 14 hours ago (Tue Jul 11, 2017 5:24 pm)

CWhite wrote:Where are the claimed mass graves for Roberto's "Chelmno, Belzec, Sobibór and Treblinka"?

Here is two of them:


Image


Photo shows the largest, in terms of both grave volume and quantity of remains, of the four so-called “huge mass graves” - ever - located / proven to exist at Belzec, Chelmno, Sobibor or Treblinka II.


I asked for a name, with proof. Don't try to change the subject.

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Re: Challenge to supporters of the "transit camp" theory

Postby CognitiveDestruction » 2 weeks 13 hours ago (Tue Jul 11, 2017 5:49 pm)

roberto wrote:
CWhite wrote:Where are the claimed mass graves for Roberto's "Chelmno, Belzec, Sobibór and Treblinka"?

Here is two of them:


Image


Photo shows the largest, in terms of both grave volume and quantity of remains, of the four so-called “huge mass graves” - ever - located / proven to exist at Belzec, Chelmno, Sobibor or Treblinka II.


I asked for a name, with proof. Don't try to change the subject.


You got your name, and it's from one of the biggest orthodox source out there. Case closed - we have reliable sources about people who were transferred to other camps, and people who were sent to the east. At the very worst, we've got a combo extermination & transit camp(if you'll accept that possibility).

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Re: Challenge to supporters of the "transit camp" theory

Postby CWhite » 2 weeks 13 hours ago (Tue Jul 11, 2017 6:00 pm)

roberto wrote:
CWhite wrote:Where are the claimed mass graves for Roberto's "Chelmno, Belzec, Sobibór and Treblinka"?

Here is two of them:


Image


Photo shows the largest, in terms of both grave volume and quantity of remains, of the four so-called “huge mass graves” - ever - located / proven to exist at Belzec, Chelmno, Sobibor or Treblinka II.


I asked for a name, with proof. Don't try to change the subject.


When are you going to add this to your "challenge" Roberto:

The following challenge pertains specifically to the _?_ [number of] jews that - I CAN - prove actually set foot in Belzec, Chelmno, Sobibor and Treblinka II, but - I CAN NOT - prove were gassed and buried in said locations:


??

Roberto:

So a total of 1,419,467 persons are supposed to have been transited to the "Russian East" in this period through these camps alone, instead of being killed at these camps as all known evidence shows them to have been.


If that is true Roberto, then the new prologue is a no brainer.

Are you chicken to do so because you've been caught in yet another lie, or what?


BTW Roberto, if "all known evidence shows" that "a total of 1,419,467 persons" were "killed at these camps," then why are you not showing us where they are, rather than asking us to prove they are somewhere you insist they aren't?

Which leads to a follow up question Roberto: How many graves were those "1,419,467 persons" buried in?

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Re: Challenge to supporters of the "transit camp" theory

Postby CWhite » 2 weeks 13 hours ago (Tue Jul 11, 2017 6:18 pm)

Looks good, don't you think Roberto?

My challenge to Revisionists is thus the following:

Please provide the name of at least one Jew that you can prove to have been transited via Chelmno, Belzec, Sobibór or Treblinka to what Korherr called the "Russian East", i.e. to a destination in the Reichskommissariat Ostland, the [I]Reichskommissariat Ukraine or the Soviet territories under German military administration[/b]. By "transited" I mean that the person in question must have been taken to the respective camp (Chelmno, Belzec, Sobibór or Treblinka), then shipped from that camp to a certain destination in the Nazi-occupied territories of the Soviet Union as defined above, e.g. to Minsk, Riga, Kovno or Kiev.

One name, with proof.

Just one name.

Please note that I believe all known evidence shows no less than - 1,419,467 - persons were killed and buried in these four camps, so the above challenge pertains specifically to the _?_ [number of] jews that - I CAN - prove actually set foot in Belzec, Chelmno, Sobibor and Treblinka II, but - I CAN NOT - prove were gassed and buried in said locations.

Disclosure: This challenge was born out of an amenable conversation between my old friend Greg Gerdes and me on the threads - $1,000.00 REWARD FOR THE NAME OF JUST ONE GASSED jEW - in which I did not earn so-much-as one sinlge penny in reward money.


What number do you want to insert in the blank space?

One number Roberto.

Just one number.
Last edited by CWhite on Tue Jul 11, 2017 6:39 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Challenge to supporters of the "transit camp" theory

Postby CognitiveDestruction » 2 weeks 12 hours ago (Tue Jul 11, 2017 6:35 pm)

Inb4 blog article claiming to debunk these threads.

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Re: Challenge to supporters of the "transit camp" theory

Postby hermod » 2 weeks 12 hours ago (Tue Jul 11, 2017 6:39 pm)

Challenge to supporters of the "extermination camp" theory:

Please formulate at least one sound non-laughable reason why the Soviets would have kept and released documents demolishing their own WW2 propaganda about their 'fascist' enemies, and why the victors of WW2 and the Israelis would have accurately recorded and reported massive postwar population movements exposing their own WW2 propaganda & Israel's founding myth as a manifest lie. Why would they have done such a stupid thing ???
"But, however the world pretends to divide itself, there are ony two divisions in the world to-day - human beings and Germans. – Rudyard Kipling, The Morning Post (London), June 22, 1915

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Re: Challenge to supporters of the "transit camp" theory

Postby CWhite » 1 week 6 days ago (Wed Jul 12, 2017 9:51 am)

Roberto:

So a total of 1,419,467 persons are supposed to have been transited to the "Russian East" in this period through these camps alone, instead of being killed at these camps as all known evidence shows them to have been.


Roberto, if "a total of 1,419,467 persons" were "killed at these camps as all known evidence shows them to have been," then:

How many names is it possible for the "supporters of the 'transit camp' theory" to gather?

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Re: Challenge to supporters of the "transit camp" theory

Postby roberto » 1 week 6 days ago (Wed Jul 12, 2017 11:54 am)

CWhite wrote:Roberto:

So a total of 1,419,467 persons are supposed to have been transited to the "Russian East" in this period through these camps alone, instead of being killed at these camps as all known evidence shows them to have been.


Roberto, if "a total of 1,419,467 persons" were "killed at these camps as all known evidence shows them to have been," then:

How many names is it possible for the "supporters of the 'transit camp' theory" to gather?


Zero, and that's the point of the challenge.


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