Comparing real German euthanasia program to impossible "holocaust" narrative

Read and post various viewpoints or search our large archives.

Moderator: Moderator

Forum rules
Be sure to read the Rules/guidelines before you post!
User avatar
Hannover
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 9197
Joined: Sun Nov 24, 2002 7:53 pm

Comparing real German euthanasia program to impossible "holocaust" narrative

Postby Hannover » 1 month 3 weeks ago (Fri Sep 29, 2017 1:31 pm)

In the typical juvenile, irrational manner when it comes to anything 'Hitler / Nazi', a big deal is made of the fact that Germany of the NS period had a euthanasia program, which is common today, worldwide.

The "Holocau$t Industry" desperately tries to link this program with the false claim of 'gassings' by the Germans, as if the euthanasia program evolved into the impossible gassings claim.

Have a look at this new piece by John Wear and see another nail driven into the '6M Jews, 5M other, & gas chambers' coffin.

I copied below the conclusion as the entire article is a bit lengthy, take the link and get the facts.

Comments invited.

I also suggest using the search function here for euthanasia, there's tons more.

- Hannover

Evidence for the German Euthanasia Program Compared to the Holocaust
By John Wear
https://codoh.com/library/document/4885/?lang=en
from:
Inconvenient History, vol. 9, no. 3, 2017
https://codoh.com/library/categories/2858/
Image
Euthanasia Poster, ca. 1938

Conclusion

The German euthanasia program is a well-documented reality. Hitler authorized the euthanasia program in writing, the defendants at the Doctors’ Trial admitted their involvement in the program, the best method for killing victims was discussed among the participants in the program, the carbon monoxide gas used in the German euthanasia program can safely and effectively kill people, and the euthanasia program was widely known by the German public. In fact, public opposition to the program was so strong in Germany that Hitler ordered the end of the first phase of the euthanasia program in August 1941.

By contrast, the genocide of European Jewry is not well documented. No order has ever been found authorizing the mass murder of Europe’s Jews. The German defendants at the main Nuremberg trial all stated they knew nothing about the so-called Holocaust. The Holocaust story absurdly states that the first gas chambers were built at Auschwitz using Zyklon B by SS personnel with no engineering experience. None of the alleged homicidal gas chambers at Auschwitz, Birkenau, and Majdanek or the claimed diesel gas chambers at the Aktion Reinhardt camps of Treblinka, Belzec, and Sobibor could possibly have been used for mass murder. The alleged genocide of Jews was also not known by the German public during the war. The eyewitness testimony to the so-called Holocaust has consistently proven to be extremely unreliable. Finally, the large number of Jewish survivors at the end of the war makes impossible a program of genocide against European Jewry.

In conclusion, while the German euthanasia program is a well-documented reality, the Holocaust story is a fraud. Dr. Arthur Robert Butz has aptly stated:[36]

The ‘Holocaust’ is such a gigantic fraud that it is a cornucopia of absurdities.”

The "Holocau$t Industry" in court:
'Please your honor, there really are remains of millions buried in huge mass graves, we know where the mass graves are, ... but, but, well, umm, we can't show the court. You must trust us, we're Zionists.'


If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

avatar
Revisionist
Member
Member
Posts: 45
Joined: Sun Jul 23, 2017 8:13 pm

Re: Comparing real German euthanasia program to impossible "holocaust" narrative

Postby Revisionist » 1 month 3 weeks ago (Fri Sep 29, 2017 1:46 pm)

I have read this piece some times ago. But were any euthanasia gas chambers found? I know only of Hartheim which was dealt by Leuchter in his second report. Also Mattogno doubt their existance.

But I have a question for believers: When Hitler stopped Euthanasia in 1941 because of unpopularity, why did he step up with something worse?
The last time I asked someone, he claimed I did a "reductio ad absurdum". But this doesn't answer my question...

avatar
Breker
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 636
Joined: Thu May 18, 2006 5:39 pm
Location: Europa

Re: Comparing real German euthanasia program to impossible "holocaust" narrative

Postby Breker » 1 month 3 weeks ago (Fri Sep 29, 2017 2:45 pm)

Revisionist wrote:I have read this piece some times ago. But were any euthanasia gas chambers found? I know only of Hartheim which was dealt by Leuchter in his second report. Also Mattogno doubt their existance.

But I have a question for believers: When Hitler stopped Euthanasia in 1941 because of unpopularity, why did he step up with something worse?
The last time I asked someone, he claimed I did a "reductio ad absurdum". But this doesn't answer my question...

You are quite on top of things, it was only published 8/31/17.
Your "something worse" question seems peculiar.
B.
Revisionists are just the messengers, the impossibility of the "Holocaust" narrative is the message.

avatar
Elroy
Member
Member
Posts: 83
Joined: Sun Aug 20, 2017 7:15 pm

Re: Comparing real German euthanasia program to impossible "holocaust" narrative

Postby Elroy » 1 month 3 weeks ago (Fri Sep 29, 2017 6:07 pm)

Yes I also think it is rather odd how Hitler would have ceased the Euthanasia program on public opinion and then went on the wipe out jewry after.

The "turd polish" for that one will no doubt be "oh, but that's why he carried out his larger more diabolical plan in "secret""- you know with code words euphemisms and word of mouth orders etc.

But I have a question regarding the topic also.

In the alleged extermination camps where the gas used was apparently carbon monoxide we were told the absurd story that it was derived from diesel engine exhaust pumped into the chambers (or even petrol engine exhaust matters not here)...

What was the origin of the carbon monoxide supposedly used for the euthanasia?

Did the nazi's, so strapped for fuel they had to make the stuff out of coal, who'se military strategy was based around running out of fuel, again hook up huge engines to hospital rooms in the middle of the city to "relieve" the severely handicapped of life??

OR did they produce the carbon monoxide in a more civilised, industrially less insane, economically possible method?

Because if that's what they did- what they would have had to have done- what was this method and where is the evidence for it being done?

I'm betting "zero"

AND- why did the German's decide to piss their fuel away for the war effort gassing Jew's in the East later on using captured Soviet Tank and mythically captured Submarine engines, rather than this sensible method reserved for euthanasia?

The story doesn't make sense- because it is a lie. (not the euthanasia itself, but these details of it).

User avatar
borjastick
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 2044
Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2011 5:52 am
Location: Europe

Re: Comparing real German euthanasia program to impossible "holocaust" narrative

Postby borjastick » 1 month 3 weeks ago (Sat Sep 30, 2017 1:44 am)

As far as I remember reading about the propensity to kill with carbon monoxide, it can only kill humans when the engine is run for a considerable time (hours?) and at a very high rev range. Not exactly practical me thinks whether for killing 1.7m at Treblinka as claimed or a few people in a controlled state euthanasia programme.
'Of the four million Jews under Nazi control in WW2, six million died and alas only five million survived.'

User avatar
Moderator
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 1463
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2002 9:23 am

Re: Comparing real German euthanasia program to impossible "holocaust" narrative

Postby Moderator » 1 month 3 weeks ago (Sat Sep 30, 2017 2:07 am)

Just searching diesel at the CODOH main site:
http://www.codoh.com
yields 98 results, see:
https://codoh.com/search/?q=diesel+gass ... =relevance
scroll down

Searching diesel euthanasia yields 23 results, see:
https://codoh.com/search/?q=diesel+euth ... =relevance

This forum has a lot as well.
M1
Only lies need to be shielded from debate, truth welcomes it.

avatar
Elroy
Member
Member
Posts: 83
Joined: Sun Aug 20, 2017 7:15 pm

Re: Comparing real German euthanasia program to impossible "holocaust" narrative

Postby Elroy » 1 month 3 weeks ago (Sat Sep 30, 2017 2:08 am)

borjastick wrote:As far as I remember reading about the propensity to kill with carbon monoxide, it can only kill humans when the engine is run for a considerable time (hours?) and at a very high rev range. Not exactly practical me thinks whether for killing 1.7m at Treblinka as claimed or a few people in a controlled state euthanasia programme.


My thoughts exactly.

Which allows the question time to be condensed...

1. What was the realistic method used to produce/administer the CO used for the euthanasia program?
2. What is the evidence for that?
3. Why was this method not adopted for Reinhardt etc? Assuming a better lie is made up.

A total concession of the lie would be appropriate otherwise.

User avatar
Hektor
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 2842
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2006 7:59 am

Re: Comparing real German euthanasia program to impossible "holocaust" narrative

Postby Hektor » 1 month 3 weeks ago (Sat Sep 30, 2017 8:09 am)

The German euthanasia program is a well-documented reality. Hitler authorized the euthanasia program in writing, the defendants at the Doctors’ Trial admitted their involvement in the program, the best method for killing victims was discussed among the participants in the program, the carbon monoxide gas used in the German euthanasia program can safely and effectively kill people, and the euthanasia program was widely known by the German public. In fact, public opposition to the program was so strong in Germany that Hitler ordered the end of the first phase of the euthanasia program in August 1941.

One sometimes reads that Hitler gave an "Euthanasia order", this is however not true. He indeed authorized certain doctors to perform euthanasia in hopeless cases:
Image
Berlin, 1. Sept. 1939

Reichsleiter Bouhler und
Dr. med. Brandt

sind unter Verantwortung beauftragt, die Befugnisse namentlich zu bestimmender Ärzte so zu erweitern, dass nach menschlichem Ermessen unheilbar Kranken bei kritischster Beurteilung ihres Krankheitszustandes der Gnadentod gewährt werden kann.

Adolf Hitler


In content this is the same as allowing abortion in exceptional cases. But apparently when Hitler does it, it suddenly becomes a big deal. As if he's some kind of deity that gives decisions a certain type of weight.

User avatar
Rmbrmb21
Member
Member
Posts: 33
Joined: Sun Mar 26, 2017 2:13 pm

Re: Comparing real German euthanasia program to impossible "holocaust" narrative

Postby Rmbrmb21 » 3 weeks 5 hours ago (Mon Oct 30, 2017 9:01 pm)

I have some questions about the euthanasia program, mostly about its cessation. Some of the questions are from a purposely naive perspective.

Are there any other papers, like what Hektor posted, that support the belief that the euthanasia order was given with the intention of mercy?

Why was the program stopped? I understand there was public opposition, but hadn't the German government suppressed people that opposed their agenda before? According to Wikipedia, the majority of opposition came from religious leaders. The government had stifled religious leaders before concerning other issues, but why did they cave in here?

This also seems like a pretty important issue to back away from. Purifying the Aryan race by eliminating inferior beings, surely euthanasia was on the list of things they planned to do since the beginning. Yet, support for National Socialism was generally high among religious people. How could they have not seen this coming, and only raise a fuss about the euthanization of people with disabilities after it had been implemented?

User avatar
Hannover
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 9197
Joined: Sun Nov 24, 2002 7:53 pm

Re: Comparing real German euthanasia program to impossible "holocaust" narrative

Postby Hannover » 3 weeks 1 hour ago (Tue Oct 31, 2017 1:48 am)

Rmbrmb21 wrote:I have some questions about the euthanasia program, mostly about its cessation. Some of the questions are from a purposely naive perspective.

1 Are there any other papers, like what Hektor posted, that support the belief that the euthanasia order was given with the intention of mercy?

2.Why was the program stopped? I understand there was public opposition, but hadn't the German government suppressed people that opposed their agenda before? According to Wikipedia, the majority of opposition came from religious leaders. The government had stifled religious leaders before concerning other issues, but why did they cave in here?

3.This also seems like a pretty important issue to back away from. Purifying the Aryan race by eliminating inferior beings, surely euthanasia was on the list of things they planned to do since the beginning. Yet, support for National Socialism was generally high among religious people. How could they have not seen this coming, and only raise a fuss about the euthanization of people with disabilities after it had been implemented?

1. The simple fact that the family was consulted necessarily means that compassion and mercy for their hopelessly ill family members was factored in. German families actually requested assistance in getting merciful euthanasia (Gnadentod) for loved ones. Hitler's personal physician, Karl Brandt, testified accordingly at Nuremberg.

I also suggest you actually read the links in this thread, for example, again:
https://codoh.com/library/document/4885/?lang=en
Reich Leader Bouhler and Dr. Med Brandt are charged with the responsibility of enlarging the powers of specific physicians, designated by name, so that patients who, on the basis of human judgment, are considered incurable, can be granted mercy death after the most careful assessment of their condition.”

2. Yes the program was halted by Hitler when it was opposed by religious leaders, many of which generally opposed all taking of life, regardless of the circumstances. merciful or not. There are such people & groups today.
German leadership obviously listened to their people, as I have shown and you admitted.
I'm not sure what "other issues" you are referring to. Do you?

As for Wikipedia, when it comes to any topic that is known to be of special financial & political interests to supremacist Jews, and certainly there is no cash cow & political tool quite like the 'holocau$t' scam and the tales which are meant to support it, you can bet the fix will be in.
From the horses mouth:

Zionist Wikipedia Editing Course
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/139189

3. I suggest that any race / people in general are interested in keeping genetic deformities out of the gene pool. Hence the commonly accepted thinking worldwide that marrying cousins, sisters, and 'in breeding' in general greatly increases the odds of unpleasant deformities, illnesses, & diseases.
The Germans were hardly the first or the last to embrace improved genetics, improvement of health.

Seen what "coming"? Something that was / is commonplace?

I submit that you watch too much TV, see too many movies. :)

Cheers, Hannover

Scholar Dr. Arthur Robert Butz has aptly stated:
"The ‘Holocaust’ is such a gigantic fraud that it is a cornucopia of absurdities.”
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

User avatar
Rmbrmb21
Member
Member
Posts: 33
Joined: Sun Mar 26, 2017 2:13 pm

Re: Comparing real German euthanasia program to impossible "holocaust" narrative

Postby Rmbrmb21 » 2 weeks 6 days ago (Tue Oct 31, 2017 3:02 pm)

Hannover wrote:1. The simple fact that the family was consulted necessarily means that compassion and mercy for their hopelessly ill family members was factored in. German families actually requested assistance in getting merciful euthanasia (Gnadentod) for loved ones. Hitler's personal physician, Karl Brandt, testified accordingly at Nuremberg.

I also suggest you actually read the links in this thread, for example, again:
https://codoh.com/library/document/4885/?lang=en
Reich Leader Bouhler and Dr. Med Brandt are charged with the responsibility of enlarging the powers of specific physicians, designated by name, so that patients who, on the basis of human judgment, are considered incurable, can be granted mercy death after the most careful assessment of their condition.”

2. Yes the program was halted by Hitler when it was opposed by religious leaders, many of which generally opposed all taking of life, regardless of the circumstances. merciful or not. There are such people & groups today.
German leadership obviously listened to their people, as I have shown and you admitted.
I'm not sure what "other issues" you are referring to. Do you?

As for Wikipedia, when it comes to any topic that is known to be of special financial & political interests to supremacist Jews, and certainly there is no cash cow & political tool quite like the 'holocau$t' scam and the tales which are meant to support it, you can bet the fix will be in.
From the horses mouth:

Zionist Wikipedia Editing Course
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/139189

3. I suggest that any race / people in general are interested in keeping genetic deformities out of the gene pool. Hence the commonly accepted thinking worldwide that marrying cousins, sisters, and 'in breeding' in general greatly increases the odds of unpleasant deformities, illnesses, & diseases.
The Germans were hardly the first or the last to embrace improved genetics, improvement of health.

Seen what "coming"? Something that was / is commonplace?

I submit that you watch too much TV, see too many movies. :)

Cheers, Hannover

Scholar Dr. Arthur Robert Butz has aptly stated:
"The ‘Holocaust’ is such a gigantic fraud that it is a cornucopia of absurdities.”


I need to clarify that I don't necessarily believe blindly in the things I asked about. I was asked these questions by someone else and I couldn't give complete answers because I haven't done much digging into the T4 program.

1. Fair points. I was just wondering if there were any other documents where the clearly defined action was condensed into a few lines, like what Hektor posted.

2. I do indeed know what the other issues were, or one specific issue that religious leaders were opposed to but supposedly were harassed and shut down. The famous example is Dietrich Bonhoeffer. He was outspoken and greatly opposed to the persecution of Jews, and was said to have been silenced in a number of ways until he was finally killed for being a spy/part of a plot to kill Hitler. His story ends with him being hanged, revived, and hanged again to suffer more. I don't believe in his story completely, but a lot of evangelicals hold him up to near idol status. An evangelical asked me these questions by the way. Bonhoeffer's story is waved around as a representation of the great struggle of Christians against the Nazi government. Again, I don't really believe that in totality, I'm just presenting him as a religious figure that is said to have been suppressed because of his vocal opposition to the government.

I am also aware of the Zionist influence on Wikipedia. But citing Wikipedia as a source for who was opposed to euthanasia in Germany I think is perfectly fine. What reason would they lie about that?

3. My point was that the National Socialists had always promoted the idea of a clean and pure Aryan race by any means, as we are told. If that were the case, why did many genuinely religious people support them and their rise to power, but to then turn around and protest something that was on the to-do list all along? Could they not have seen the euthanasia program was eminent? It's not a be all end all question. I'm just curious why you think this is. Some part of this query must be wrong/a lie, but which part or parts?

I generally try to avoid TV and movies, although I did watch Apocalypto recently. It's pretty good.

User avatar
Hannover
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 9197
Joined: Sun Nov 24, 2002 7:53 pm

Re: Comparing real German euthanasia program to impossible "holocaust" narrative

Postby Hannover » 2 weeks 6 days ago (Tue Oct 31, 2017 6:00 pm)

Rmbrmb21, you said:
I need to clarify that I don't necessarily believe blindly in the things I asked about. I was asked these questions by someone else and I couldn't give complete answers because I haven't done much digging into the T4 program.

1. Fair points. I was just wondering if there were any other documents where the clearly defined action was condensed into a few lines, like what Hektor posted.

2. I do indeed know what the other issues were, or one specific issue that religious leaders were opposed to but supposedly were harassed and shut down. The famous example is Dietrich Bonhoeffer. He was outspoken and greatly opposed to the persecution of Jews, and was said to have been silenced in a number of ways until he was finally killed for being a spy/part of a plot to kill Hitler. His story ends with him being hanged, revived, and hanged again to suffer more. I don't believe in his story completely, but a lot of evangelicals hold him up to near idol status. An evangelical asked me these questions by the way. Bonhoeffer's story is waved around as a representation of the great struggle of Christians against the Nazi government. Again, I don't really believe that in totality, I'm just presenting him as a religious figure that is said to have been suppressed because of his vocal opposition to the government.

I am also aware of the Zionist influence on Wikipedia. But citing Wikipedia as a source for who was opposed to euthanasia in Germany I think is perfectly fine. What reason would they lie about that?

3. My point was that the National Socialists had always promoted the idea of a clean and pure Aryan race by any means, as we are told. If that were the case, why did many genuinely religious people support them and their rise to power, but to then turn around and protest something that was on the to-do list all along? Could they not have seen the euthanasia program was eminent? It's not a be all end all question. I'm just curious why you think this is. Some part of this query must be wrong/a lie, but which part or parts?

I generally try to avoid TV and movies, although I did watch Apocalypto recently. It's pretty good.

1. I showed you some. You showed me nothing to refute them.

2. fact: Dietrich Bonhoeffer was a spy. All spies are executed during wartime by all sides.
The absurd double hanging claim is without proof and makes no sense. Please show it, if you can.

He was "suppressed" because he agitated against the powers that be in his country during wartime. It's generally called being a traitor.
He certainly would have been executed much sooner had he espoused what he did in Allied countries, in the USSR he wouldn't have lasted a week. Germany showed great patience.

Again, he WAS a spy.

What "great struggle of Christians against the Nazi government"? There was none to speak of. Please show it to us if you can.
Germans were overwhelmingly Christian.

I gave you the reasons to question the credibility of Wikipedia, you ignored them.
The admitted constant editing of it by Zionists speaks for itself.

3. Show us where they "promoted the idea of a clean and pure Aryan race by any means". I'm most curious.

They were supported because they didn't do the things that they are alleged to have done. Simple stuff really.
There were the ‘Nazis’ with the impossible '6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers' and there were the ‘Nazis’ without the impossible ’6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’.


The euthanasia program was not as the Zionist propaganda claims and you have no proof that it was. If so, present it.

I have pointed out the parts of your query that are wrong. Please stop ignoring them.

- Hannover

"To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize."
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

User avatar
Rmbrmb21
Member
Member
Posts: 33
Joined: Sun Mar 26, 2017 2:13 pm

Re: Comparing real German euthanasia program to impossible "holocaust" narrative

Postby Rmbrmb21 » 2 weeks 6 days ago (Tue Oct 31, 2017 6:47 pm)

Hannover wrote:

1. I showed you some. You showed me nothing to refute them.

2. fact: Dietrich Bonhoeffer was a spy. All spies are executed during wartime by all sides.
The absurd double hanging claim is without proof and makes no sense. Please show it, if you can.

He was "suppressed" because he agitated against the powers that be in his country during wartime. It's generally called being a traitor.
He certainly would have been executed much sooner had he espoused what he did in Allied countries, in the USSR he wouldn't have lasted a week. Germany showed great patience.

Again, he WAS a spy.

What "great struggle of Christians against the Nazi government"? There was none to speak of. Please show it to us if you can.
Germans were overwhelmingly Christian.

I gave you the reasons to question the credibility of Wikipedia, you ignored them.
The admitted constant editing of it by Zionists speaks for itself.

3. Show us where they "promoted the idea of a clean and pure Aryan race by any means". I'm most curious.

They were supported because they didn't do the things that they are alleged to have done. Simple stuff really.
There were the ‘Nazis’ with the impossible '6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers' and there were the ‘Nazis’ without the impossible ’6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’.


The euthanasia program was not as the Zionist propaganda claims and you have no proof that it was. If so, present it.

I have pointed out the parts of your query that are wrong. Please stop ignoring them.

- Hannover

"To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize."


Alright, I'll just concede. I don't have proof for lots of those things, but many people believe them anyways. I was never meaning to antagonize, just asking some questions.

User avatar
Hannover
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 9197
Joined: Sun Nov 24, 2002 7:53 pm

Re: Comparing real German euthanasia program to impossible "holocaust" narrative

Postby Hannover » 2 weeks 6 days ago (Tue Oct 31, 2017 11:23 pm)

Rmbrmb21 said:
Alright, I'll just concede. I don't have proof for lots of those things, but many people believe them anyways. I was never meaning to antagonize, just asking some questions.

Remember, all Revisionists are former Believers, we all had to concede that we were wrong. No shame in that whatsoever.
It's the wise who accept & learn from their mistakes.
Worldwide, people also believed / believe in witchcraft & sorcery, among a long list of other impossibilities.
That's why the so called 'holocaust' is often described as a religion.

No worries about antagonizing.
You are free to believe what you want, but at this forum you are more than likely going to be challenged on opinions & statements of 'fact' that you, or anyone else makes.
That's the way it should be, eh?

Feel free to ask any questions, make any on topic challenges that you want, start threads.
I feel confident in saying that those at this forum have it all covered.

We're glad to have you here.

Regards, Hannover

Below is where free speech on the impossible 'holocaust' storyline is actually illegal, violators go to prison for Thought Crimes.
An admission that it doesn't stand up to scientific, logical, & rational scrutiny.


Image
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.


Return to “'Holocaust' Debate / Comments / News”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 6 guests