Manufacturing 'historical facts'

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Hannover
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Manufacturing 'historical facts'

Postby Hannover » 1 decade 6 years ago (Tue Jan 07, 2003 10:43 am)

This is just the tip of the iceberg and is rather indicative of the tactics used against the Germans, whereby 'historical facts' were simply manufactured.

U. Walendy at the Zuendel trial 1988:
Sefton Delmer was a foreign reporter for the English Beaverbrook Press, and in that capacity accompanied Hitler on many of his election tours. After Hitler came to power,
Delmer was one of the most respected foreign journalists in Berlin. In 1940, Delmer was the official news announcer on the BBC and was in a position, without even consulting the British Foreign Minister, to turn down an offer of peace made by Hitler.
Subsequently, he was the propaganda leader in the British Information Ministry and had a large staff. He carried out so-called "black propaganda" after the end of the war. He was sent to the British-occupied zone in order to co- ordinate the black propaganda with the French, Soviets and Americans. (29-7883)
Delmer was the head of "black propaganda," meaning forged documents. He managed not only groups of people working in this type of work, but also managed the relevant radio stations. He was a personal friend of the British Information Minister. In June, 1944, the Information Ministry sent out an official directive to all the higher-echelon civil servants and managers of the public media, instructing them that with the Red Army in Europe, they would have to expect incredible cruelty from which they could distract world attention only through a strengthened atrocity propaganda campaign against Germany. (28-7660, 7661)

Sefton Delmer was the head functionary who carried out this work for the British government. His main method was to lie as exactly as possible so that the lies couldn't be uncovered right away. After the end of the war in occupied Germany, Delmer co-ordinated the "black propaganda" campaign with the French, the Soviets and the Americans. These co- ordinated lies and inventions could not be recognized as such right away.

Delmer's work in occupied Germany lasted until 1947. During that period he and his staff forged a wealth of German documents which reached official files. He described this work to a large extent in his own book. Walendy testified that most of these forged documents had the Germans committing a large number of war crimes. Delmer provided the documents to the British Ministry of Information which in turn sent them to the Nuremberg trial as official documents.
The International Military Tribunal, pursuant to the London Agreement, did not check whether the documents were true or false, but simply entered them as evidence of "generally-known facts." Because they were considered authenticated official documents, they had now been introduced into history books. In this situation, Walendy testified, even officially published documents had to be analyzed to determine whether or not they were forgeries. (28-7662, 7663)


I'll be posting more on manufactured 'facts'.

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Postby Sailor » 1 decade 6 years ago (Tue Jan 07, 2003 12:05 pm)

Hannover wrote:
Delmer's work in occupied Germany lasted until 1947. During that period he and his staff forged a wealth of German documents which reached official files. He described this work to a large extent in his own book.


Any idea about the title of Delmer’s book?

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Postby Sailor » 1 decade 6 years ago (Tue Jan 07, 2003 12:17 pm)

I think I found it:

The Counterfeit Spy by Sefton Delmer

Sells for a little over $10 as used at amazon.com

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 6 years ago (Tue Jan 07, 2003 1:37 pm)

You might also look at:

'Trail sinister; an autobiography'

'Black Boomerang : an autobiography'

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Postby Sailor » 1 decade 6 years ago (Tue Jan 07, 2003 2:39 pm)

Thanks.

I will try to get hold of these books through our local library. I am particularly interested to find out which Holocaust related documents Delmer admitted to have forged.

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 6 years ago (Tue Jan 07, 2003 5:02 pm)

What's critical here is the acknowledgement that there were people actively manufacturing false documents, disinformation, & propaganda.
This counters those who claim no such activities occurred, and the canard that states that anyone who claims as much are 'conspiracy theorists'.

Ofcourse, the ridiculous '6,000,000' & absurd 'gas chambers' are the ultimate in wayout, bizarre conspiracy theories.

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Postby Sailor » 1 decade 6 years ago (Tue Jan 07, 2003 7:07 pm)

I found this in one of my files about Sefton Delmer:

In past wars, when the enemy surrendered, the atrocity propaganda ebbed off. But after World War II this propaganda intensified after Unconditional Surrender. We ask why. For whose benefit? A few days after Surrender, Prof. Friedrich Grimm was interviewed by (who unknown to him) was Sefton Delmer, the British War Propaganda Chief, who boasted, "I am of the Central Office you talked about: Atrocity propaganda -- and with it we won the total victory." When Dr. Grimm said, "I know, and now you must stop it!" Sefton Delmer retorted:

"No, now we shall start all the more! We shall continue this atrocity propaganda, we shall intensify it, until nobody shall accept a good word from Germans anymore, until all the sympathy you had in other countries shall be destroyed, and until the Germans themselves shall be so confused that they do not know anymore what they are doing!"

Delmer was apparently born in Berlin. The hatred in that man against Germany was incredible. Why?

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Postby elbod » 1 decade 6 years ago (Tue Jan 07, 2003 8:32 pm)

The German historian Ernst Nolte writes the following in his book
Streitpunkte: Heutige und künftige Kontroversen um den Nationalsozialismus.
Propyläen Verlag ISBN 3 549 05234 0 (1993),
side 313-14:

Dieser Fälschungsvorwurf wird hauptsächlich auf die angebliche Existenz einer riesigen Fälscherzentrale in einem jüdischen DP-Lager bei München gestützt, und der Verdacht wird auf viele andere Schlüsseldokumente ausgedehnt, sogar auf die Geheimreden Himmlers, auch die von 4. Oktober 1943,, die ja in der Tat nur in einer kaum verständlichen Plattenaufnahme überliefert ist. Die Tatsache, dass so viele Nürnberger Dokumente nur als Kopien vorgelegt wurden und dass die Originale überwiegend bis heute nicht zugänglich sind, ist ein weiteres Argument, dass nicht leichtfertig abgetan werden sollte.


(Note : The first part of the paragraph discusses Walendy’s critique – falsification suspicions – of the Wansee Document!)

“This accusation of falsifications is mainly supported by the alleged existence of a huge falsification center in a Jewish DP-camp (displaced persons?) at Munich, and the suspicion is extended to other key documents, even to the secret speeches of Himmler, also those from October 4, 1943, that actually are handed down in a hardly understandable gramophone recording. The fact that so many Nuremberg Documents were presented/introduced(? At the IMT?) only as copies and that the originals mainly to this day are non-accessible, is another argument, that ought not to be easily dismissed.” (My transl. Please check it!!)

Is there anything written by revisionists about this DP-camp at Munich? Does it have a name?

Regards/elbod

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 6 years ago (Tue Jan 07, 2003 10:14 pm)

Your post does nothing to counter Sefton Delmer, only attacks Walendy. Delmer was for real and admitted forgeries; Walendy was not charged with perjury.

You seem to want to discuss Wannsee, I recommend a separate thread for that.

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Postby elbod » 1 decade 6 years ago (Tue Jan 07, 2003 10:56 pm)

Thanks for the reply.

It's possible that I have misunderstood the posting rules, but the title of the thread doesn't specify neither Walendy nor Delmer but the subject under discussion seems to be Manufacturing 'historical facts'.

Either way, there was no intention to "attack" anybody. The parenthesis after the German quote was meant to explain the first pronoun ("Dieser"), and what it "demonstrated" at in the preceding text in Nolte's book.

Prof. Nolte, of "Historikerstreit" fame, is suffering from the German laws against Holocaust Denial, and accordingly must watch his tongue/writings ("angeblich", alleged, etc). His "real mind" cannot be readily read under such circumstances.

But his books introduced at least me to the concept of WW2 "revisionism", before Internet.

I was wondering about this DP-camp then. Can some of the Nuremberg documents be traced to this camp? Were the inmates (perhaps ex-Eastern?) employed in "processing" (ie, "translating", "copying" etc) documents arriving from all over Europe?

Regards/elbod.

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 6 years ago (Wed Jan 08, 2003 1:28 am)

For a good site that covers Nuremberg forgeries and document tampering, have a look here:

http://www.cwporter.com/articles.htm

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Postby Sailor » 1 decade 6 years ago (Wed Jan 08, 2003 12:32 pm)

elbod wrote: Is there anything written by revisionists about this DP-camp at Munich? Does it have a name?

One way to find out is to go to the VHO's and Codoh's Site Search Page
http://vho.org/search/
and search for “Fälschung” (forgery) which will result in almost 300 references of the VHO site.

The German history professor Dr. Ernst Nolte seems to be a little “two-faced” about matters Holocaust. In the article:
Auch Holocaust-Lügen haben kurze Beine (Also Lies have Short Legs) http://www.vho.org/D/Nolte/index.html
Rudolf reviews and criticizes the referenced book Streitpunkte: Heutige und künftige Kontroversen um den Nationalsozialismus

[…]and the suspicion is extended to other key documents, even to the secret speeches of Himmler, also those from October 4, 1943, that actually are handed down in a hardly understandable gramophone recording


But on page 295 of his book Ernst Nolte says that the articulation and stile of the barely understandable recording of Himmlers speech are very similar and therefore probably authentic. Nolte is an orthodox politically correct German historian.

Says Irving: Ja, die feige deutsche Historikerschaft! (Yes, the coward German historians!)

Prof. Nolte, of "Historikerstreit" fame, is suffering from the German laws against Holocaust Denial, and accordingly must watch his tongue/writings ("angeblich", alleged, etc). His "real mind" cannot be readily read under such circumstances.


This on the other hand is correct too IMO. :D

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Postby widukind » 1 decade 6 years ago (Wed Jan 08, 2003 2:03 pm)

For a possible answer to Elbod's query, as to the DP camps producing fake documents, I found the following stuff in several books by jewish revisionist J.G. Burg :

Sogar die Dokumentenhersteller von 1945/1947 aus Marseilles, München-Freimann und Föhrenwald/Wolfratshausen, die den Nürnberger Anklagebehörden, mit "authentischen" und "einwandfreien" Zeugnisaussagen unter die Arme griffen (...)

J.G. Burg, Jüdische Anekdotiade, S. 229


Auch diese "korrekte" Übersetzung des Göringtextes ins Englische, wurde im Dokumentenherstelleratelier in Föhrenwald (Bayern) vorgenommen. Nur dort konnte das so "unwichtige" Wörtlein "Endlösung" hineingetippt werden.

J.G. Burg, Sündenböcke, 3. Auflage, S. 456


Burg also mentions a certain "L.W.", a Lithuanian Jew who arrived from New York as the director of several faking centers:

Wie man an "Authentische Dokumente" herankommt und mit diesen Gerichte von dem Wahrheitsgehalt dieser "Dokumente" überzeugt, hat Herr Kempner in Nürnberg die Erfahrungen gesammelt. Zur Hilfe standen ihm die Herren L.W. und M.K. - ersterer als Leiter einiger "Fälscherwerkstätten", der Zweite, bekannt als einer der grausamsten "Verhörer" deutscher Arrestanten (...)

J.G. Burg, Sündenböcke, 3. Auflage, S. 612


1945 - 1947 existieren in Bayern 3 Dokumentenfälscher-Werkstätten, angeführt von einem Litauer Juden, der über Brooklin/New York nach der BRD kam und sich L.W. nannte.

Die Schlägerbande wurde von einem Psychopaten, der aus Deutschland emigrierte und als Remigrante aus den USA den Namen M.K. trug, geführt.

J.G. Burg, Maidanek in alle Ewigkeit?, S. 63


I know Burg mentions a 3rd center in Munich in another booklet, but I just can't find the reference anymore.

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 6 years ago (Wed Jan 08, 2003 2:13 pm)

How about some translations, even a summary would work.

Danke.

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Postby widukind » 1 decade 6 years ago (Wed Jan 08, 2003 3:41 pm)

OK, here we go.

[Burg on lies peddled by Golda Meir :]

Even the document producers of 1945/57 in Marseilles, Munich-Freimann and Föhrenwald/Wolfratshausen, who supported the prosecution in Nuremberg with "authentic" and "irrefutable" witness testimonies dropped the "ascertained facts" on soap and Jewish-skin lampshades (...)

J.G. Burg, Jüdische Anekdotiade, S. 229


[Burg on the deliberate mistranslation of Göring's letter to Heydrich dated July 31, 1941, where the word "Gesamtlösung" (overall solution) was replaced with "Endlösung" (final solution)]

This "correct" translation of the Göring text to English was also undertaken in the forgery workshop at Föhrenwald (Bavaria). Only there could the "unimportant" little word "Endlösung" be typed in.

J.G. Burg, Sündenböcke, 3. Auflage, S. 456



How to get hold of "authentic documents" and how to convince tribunals of the authenticity of such "documents" is something Mr. Kempner learnt in Nuremberg. Ready to assist him were L.W. and M.K. - the former the director of several forgery workshops, the latter known as one of the most cruel interrogators of German detainees (...)

J.G. Burg, Sündenböcke, 3. Auflage, S. 612


For the period 1945-1947 there were 3 forgery workshops in Bavaria, led by a Lithuanian Jew who arrived to German via Brooklyn/New York named L.W.

The hit-team was led by a psycho, who had emigrated from Germany to the USA before imigrating back again, whose name was M.K.

J.G. Burg, Maidanek in alle Ewigkeit?, S. 63


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