Treblinka study by Krege

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Trojan
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Treblinka study by Krege

Postby Trojan » 1 decade 5 years ago (Mon Jul 19, 2004 11:42 am)

http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v19/v19n3p20_radar.html

Was Krege's study sufficient? Did he adquately document his methodology, findings, etc?

Is he reputable? Impartial? Has his study and methods been subjected to peer review?

I beleive his articles fail completely.

He has only vague and unverifiable data and methodology. He does not identify with specifics, that areas searched. He has not shown that he is even qualified to opin on GPR. He has not allowed an independent investigator access to his GPR results, etc.

I'd like to hear what the board has to say about his methods.

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 5 years ago (Mon Jul 19, 2004 12:48 pm)

The questions remains, why don't the Believers try to prove him wrong?

Since we have 'eyewitness' statements and maps, why don't the Believers show us the physical evidence for an alleged mass grave that supposedly held 900,000 Jews?

They can't, that's why. Simple as that.

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Postby Trojan » 1 decade 5 years ago (Mon Jul 19, 2004 12:54 pm)

Hannover wrote:The questions remains, why don't the Believers try to prove him wrong?

Since we have 'eyewitness' statements and maps, why don't the Believers show us the physical evidence for an alleged mass grave that supposedly held 900,000 Jews?

They can't, that's why. Simple as that.

- Hannover


Ah yes, however, my dear Hannover, you have NOT addressed the question of this post.

"Was Krege's study sufficient? Did he adquately document his methodology, findings, etc?"

If a supporter of the Holocaust posted a pro-Holocaust article(s), using the same methodology as Krege, would you accept his study? Or would you demand more proof? An independent review of his GPR study, etc.

I would and do demand more from a study before I will accept it as evidence. Do you?

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Postby Sailor » 1 decade 5 years ago (Mon Jul 19, 2004 1:48 pm)

Quite frankly I don't know much about ground penetrating radar. Searching with Google results in quite a few hits, and the technique seems to be useful and acceptable for locating underground objects.

I believe that Krege's findings for Treblinka are correct, especially since they seem to be in agreement with the results of the excavations done by the Polish in 1945/46 in the area of the alleged mass grave sites within the Treblinka II area, as indicated by eye witness Yankel Viernik. There were no dead bodies.

I understand that Krege is planning to publish a book about his research. Maybe we should wait until it comes out.

But I think that Trojan has a point. We need more information than just a couple of radar scans.

fge
Last edited by Sailor on Mon Jul 19, 2004 1:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 5 years ago (Mon Jul 19, 2004 1:52 pm)

We have a scan itself with Krege shown using the scanner at Treblinka:
http://www.fpp.co.uk/Auschwitz/Treblink ... 91000.html

Image

We have a more detailed report in German with photos:
http://vho.org/VffG/2000/1/Krege62-64.html

We have news coverage here with a scan:
http://www.ety.com/HRP/rev/treblinka-lie.htm

Image

Clearly Krege has done an excellent job in releasing preliminary information, as results and basic methodology are given.

However, the hammer comes down again when his book is released:
http://vho.org/GB/Books/HHS.html
Planned: Richard Krege, The Krege Report. Ground Penetrating Radar Research at the Operation Reinhardt Camps Treblinka, Belzec, and Sobibor

With high-tech devices, the author ventured out in search of the alleged mass graves and open air incineration sites, where millions are claimed to have perished – with surprising results.


Now the onus is upon the Believers to show us that this alleged grave of supposedly 900,000 Jews is more than mere propaganda. If they have a problem with Krege, then it is upon them show us contrary evidence.

More to come from Krege. Sleep well Believers.

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Postby Trojan » 1 decade 5 years ago (Mon Jul 19, 2004 3:57 pm)

Dear Moderator(s):

I would like to know why my reply was not allowed. It was on point, it it was not spam and it did not insult or degrade anyone. I asked for an answer to my question. I think I deserve an answer.

A detailed reply would be appreciated.

Trojan

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Postby Moderator3 » 1 decade 5 years ago (Mon Jul 19, 2004 4:15 pm)

Trojan:
You're simply repeating your same points. They were responded to by Sailor and Hannover. You have also been challenged to show evidence that Krege's conclusions are in error. What say you?
M3

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Postby Trojan » 1 decade 5 years ago (Mon Jul 19, 2004 4:26 pm)

Moderator3 wrote:Trojan:
You're simply repeating your same points. They were responded to by Sailor and Hannover. You have also been challenged to show evidence that Krege's conclusions are in error. What say you?
M3


There seems to be some confusion concerning this thread. I started this thread with a specific example of a Holocaust/Revisionist article that I think is insufficient to prove a point. I stated that Krege did not do a comprehensive study, did not allow his work to be reviewed by independent exprerts and failed to document his work.

In other words, you could not go into a court of law or any reputable intellectual arena and declare that this article and this article alone proves or disproves ANYTHING.

This article and the methods used to reach a "scientific" conclusion would never pass for a legitimate study in any nuetral arena.

That is my view on THIS article and this article alone.

I would like to hear from the board on this issue. Is this article a sufficent study or is more work demanded?

If this article is not sufficient, what more would you like to see?

ps: this thread was not started to prove or disprove the existince of the mass grave ... if anyone wants to discuss this subject, should they not start a new thread?

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 5 years ago (Mon Jul 19, 2004 5:46 pm)

Trojan:

Again, this is Krege's preliminary information and he did a good job prior to releasing his book....due soon. So, how do you know just how comprehensive his study is/isn't?

Sure you could go to court with his work. It would then be upon those who resist his conclusions to prove him wrong. Go to court with it? You bet. And by the way, Krege is a "qualified electronics engineer".

Go ahead, find 'independent experts' to do the same scans, it's not Krege's job. Even ask the not so independent, deep pockets Wiesenthal Center to replicate his work; do they dare? No chance.

I find your insistence that:
this thread was not started to prove or disprove the existince of the mass grave ...

to be frankly, insincere. That is precisely what you're hoping to do, but can't; otherwise you would present evidence that Krege is wrong, and you cannot.

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Postby Trojan » 1 decade 5 years ago (Tue Jul 20, 2004 7:17 am)

Hannover wrote:I find your insistence that:
this thread was not started to prove or disprove the existince of the mass grave ...

to be frankly, insincere. That is precisely what you're hoping to do, but can't; otherwise you would present evidence that Krege is wrong, and you cannot.

- Hannover


To Hannover:

Please do not put words in my mouth, you do not know what I think.

I wanted to find out what level of detail you demand in a study before you will find it legitimate. Which you have now demonstrated.

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 5 years ago (Tue Jul 20, 2004 9:33 am)

Well yes, I suppose I was a bit personal, apologies. However, my opinion remains unchanged. I believe you are hopelessly trapped in beliefs which cannot be sustained in the long run. Come on over Trojan, free yourself, you will be welcomed. Remember, we all used to believe.

There are many other examples, but the Krege work is proving to be insurmountable for Believers. It's utter simplicity, ease of repetition and verifiability is stupefying to the indoctrinated and those that profit. There is simply no way out. They dare not do the same GPR scans, they would get the same results....short of faking it (not uncommon for them).

Science cannot be called 'antisemitic', but True Believers and 'holocau$t' Hustlers can be called 'antiscience'.

'holocaust' Revisionism is not going away, it can only grow. Science over superstition and propaganda.

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Postby Trojan » 1 decade 5 years ago (Tue Jul 20, 2004 10:52 am)

Hannover wrote:Well yes, I suppose I was a bit personal, apologies.


Damn, never thought I see this ... thanks :wink:

However, my opinion remains unchanged.


As does mine, Krege's study requires more work. I cannot and will not accept a half-hearted report and study. If he wants to be taken as a credible source, he needs to document and address the questions I raised earlier.

If a believer cited a "scientific" study which drew conclusions with no physical evidnece offerred to substantiate that proof ... you would never accept it. Both believers and revisionists should be held to the same standard of proof.

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 5 years ago (Tue Jul 20, 2004 1:25 pm)

What about 'preliminary' is so difficult to understand? The book is coming soon. In the meantime, another torpedo has hit the sinking steamship 'holocaust'.

The problem with your assessment is that you cannot demonstrate the existence of the alleged pit for 900,00 Jews. You make the claims and can't back them up. It really boils down to that.

This thread is all about the allegations of huge mass graves that Krege cannot find. Show us this phantom pit. Why do you dodge that challenge?

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Postby Turpitz » 1 decade 5 years ago (Tue Jul 20, 2004 1:58 pm)

Trojan, how can you expect Krege to have 'physical evidence' when none exists?

This is the very reason why true believers revert to the godlike scholar argument. You seem to want to promote the so-called scholars as if they are supposedly the, be all and end all of everything, Mr PhD this and Dr, Prof that, as if these pitiful titles give them authority.

The reason the Industry has chosen this route is because they have to. You see the Industry only exists on paper, hence all the promoters of the industry are pen-pushers and bull-shitters, like Van-Pelt. If the industries promoters consisted of lay-men and people of a hands-on, physical and practical type, say for instance, archaeologists and ground workers, forensic teams. They would all be unemployed within a week, as there would be nothing for them to do!

This is a very enlightening situation when one considers the tremendous practical and physical nature of physically assembling, murdering then disposing of 11,000.000 persons. And what’s even more incredible is that it was carried out with such cunning and mind-boggling precision, that not a trace of these ghost-like wretches has ever been seen since…Amazing!

We also know that being the eternal victims and money-grubbers that the industries high priests are. If there was a mass-grave at any of these sites they would be the first to exploit it. They would get their Zionist journaille down there with the cameras rolling. All the bank-rolled, pen-pushing promoters would all be assembled crying crocodile tears; through eyes that contain no irises, only dollar signs. Yes I can envisage the scene now, they would glory in it …It would be hideous!

All that needs too be done is hire a couple of JCB’s (Diggers) put the ditching buckets on. Clear the top-soil, swap the buckets for 18 inchers and start digging. Probably take about four/five hours all told, too clear a 50ft square area to a depth of six feet and see what you find.

BUT YOU WOULD NOT DARE! EVEN THOUGH THE REWARDS WOULD GO BEYOND YOUR WILDEST AND TWISTED DREAMS/NIGHTMARES.


Face it Trojan, there are ‘NO’ graves!


So it’s come to this: ‘THE GREAT PAPER CHASE.’



And if you ask: ‘Do you not see, the path too follow is that of the true believer?’

I shall reply: ‘Forgive me, but I must inquire, Just according too whose plan?’

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Postby Trojan » 1 decade 5 years ago (Tue Jul 20, 2004 3:31 pm)

Turpitz wrote:Trojan, how can you expect Krege to have 'physical evidence' when none exists?

...
Face it Trojan, there are ‘NO’ graves!



I guess I have not been clear enough in my posts. Perhaps I should type slower. :lol:

Physical evidence in Krege's case would be his GPR scans, proof that he is qualified to run a GPR system, a survey that demonstrates what areas he scanned, some indication that the GPR system he used is capable of make the determination he claims, etc.

Why is it so hard for everyone to understand, I have not focused on what Kreg's findings are, I am focused on his methods. The verifiable proof/evidence that stands behind his conclusions.

If this is a preliminary study, then he should not rush off to print what is not yet verified. Because, when he does so, ill informed readers will take his text as gospel, rather than take his text at face value.

The face value in this case is negligible. There is absolutely no definitive proof sited in his text, at least not the type of proof you would demand in a pro-holocaust report. Krege fails to demonstrate with scientific methods what he claims (though even he admitts that more study is needed).

Why can't you see this?


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