Gypsy charade at Auschwitz

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Hannover
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Gypsy charade at Auschwitz

Postby Hannover » 1 decade 5 years ago (Mon Aug 02, 2004 8:59 pm)

Well, here we go again. More nonsense about gassings, this time the Gypsies go for the gold. Curious how we read words from a 'survivor', so many survivors, but no evidence for the claims ... none.

To any Believer who thinks they have evidence for the alleged gassings of Gypsies they are hereby challenged to bring it here for debate.

Comments invited.

- Hannover
Gypsies Remember Their Dead at Auschwitz
Mon Aug 2, 2004
By TONY CZUCZKA, Associated Press Writer

OSWIECIM, Poland - Gypsies from across Europe gathered at Auschwitz Monday to remember hundreds of thousands of their murdered ancestors and to call for wider recognition of their suffering in the Nazi Holocaust.

The ceremony, exactly 60 years after the night the Nazis gassed the last 2,900 Gypsies in the Auschwitz-Birkenau death camp, also heard warnings that today's Gypsies still face discrimination, especially in eastern Europe.

Calling Auschwitz "a symbol of the genocide perpetrated on our people," Roman Kwiatkowski, the top Gypsy representative in Poland, said: "These crimes should be properly commemorated. We fear again that the Roma Holocaust will be forgotten."

Roma and Sinti are names by which Gypsies in Europe are also known. Gypsy organizations put their total number at more than 7 million.

Up to half a million European Gypsies are believed to have perished at the Nazis' hands during World War II along with 6 million Jews, though the exact number is not known. Others were sterilized or subjected to grisly pseudo-medical experiments.

The Nazis considered Gypsies racially inferior and "anti-social." Many were deported to a special section of the Auschwitz-Birkenau concentration camp complex in occupied Poland.

The Nazis liquidated the Gypsy camp on Aug. 2, 1944 and gassed most of the remaining inmates, including many women, children and old people. Others were sent to German factories as forced laborers.

On Monday several hundred mourners, including camp survivors and envoys of several European governments, walked from the barracks area to the ruins of a gas chamber and crematorium where Gypsy representatives placed candles on the wall.

SS soldiers blew up the gas chamber and crematorium in early 1945 when the Nazis abandoned the camp as the Soviet army advanced. In May 1945, Nazi Germany surrendered.

Hugo Hoellenreiner, a German Gypsy who survived the camp along with his parents, recalled the daily horror that included visits by camp doctor Josef Mengele, who used inmates for his so-called medical experiments.

"Even today, I cannot understand why they did it to us," he said in a moving speech. "I can never forgive or forget what happened to us."

Monday's anniversary was observed with speeches and mournful music amid the ruins of dozens of prison barracks on a vast grassy area, still ringed by concrete fence posts, watchtowers and birch trees.

Germany's envoy, Environment Minister Juergen Trittin, noted that Gypsies have struggled for wider awareness of their suffering under the Nazis.

"Like the Jews, the Sinti and Roma were brutally persecuted and systematically murdered with an inhuman determination," he said.

"This genocide is part of our history. As Germans, we carry the historic and the political responsibility."

At a half-dozen ceremonies across Hungary Monday, Gypsies gathered with candles, saying prayers for tens of thousands of Gypsies from that country who were killed.

Gypsy and civic leaders also called on Hungarians to help curb prejudice that still persists.

"It is not enough to fight extremism with laws," said Jozsef Balogh, the mayor of Gyor, in western Hungary. "It must be condemned by the whole of society."

Prejudice against Gypsies remains strong in Hungary, which has been under pressure in recent years from international organizations to do more to integrate them into society.

Surveys show that Gypsies remain less educated, less healthy and more likely to be poor and unemployed than the Hungarian average.
___

Associated Press writer Karl Peter Kirk contributed to this report from Budapest, Hungary.
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 5 years ago (Mon Aug 02, 2004 9:10 pm)

see this thread:
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=829

The Gypsy lie is demolished.

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Postby comrade seinfeld » 1 decade 5 years ago (Wed Aug 04, 2004 11:29 pm)

Hannover says:
Well, here we go again. More nonsense about gassings, this time the Gypsies go for the gold. Curious how we read words from a 'survivor', so many survivors, but no evidence for the claims ... none.

To any Believer who thinks they have evidence for the alleged gassings of Gypsies they are hereby challenged to bring it here for debate.

Comments invited.

- Hannover


I have seen the recent news reports concerning this matter, and I notice that there is reference to the presumed fact, that, unlike the Jews, the Gypsies are supposed to have put up resistance to the fact that they were supposed to have been exterminated, so that when it was supposed to have been time to finish off the Gypsy camp in Auschwitz, the Gypsies resisted so strongly that the Nazis had to postpone the matter until they had reinforcements.

I have heard talk of this matter concerning the resistance of the Gypsies in the past, and I have wondered about it. I thought perhaps that the Gypsies would have been more likely to believe the Allied war atrocity propaganda, whereas the Jews, with a long tradition of ethnic cleansing, in one way or another, did not really believe that they were going to be exterminated.

On the Australian Broadcasting Corporation recently there was in fact a program which mentioned this matter at http://www.abc.net.au/rn/bigidea/stories/s1149441.htm at which it was said:

And the bitterness that many of these Jewish settlers in particular—not all of them, just a few—were often against the Jews in Europe because, they said, they'd surrendered so easily. They'd marched to the railway station to be taken up. They were almost contemptuous. And they were particularly contemptuous of those Jews that remained in Germany. They didn't like them. And it is a fact, that they were marched to the railway stations and taken to the camps, whereas the gypsies fought, every bit of the way. It was a different attitude. When the gypsy trains came in to Auschwitz, the guards there dreaded them, because they fought all the way. They were not docile.


Does anyone know if there is any references on the web to the above matters concerning the Gypsies? As I said I have heard the matter mentioned before, but probably the Jews would not want to emphasize the matter as they would regard themselves as having a patent on the notion of extermination!

Finally I remember reading somewhere a long time ago that Hitler and the Nazis believed that the Gypsies were the remnants of the original Aryan racial wanderers into Europe, presumably from India, and that they had degenerated as a result of racial miscegeneration with the various Asiatic racial groups they came into contact with. Therefore, if that was true then the Nazis would not have been particularly interested in exterminating them, but would have regarded them as a racial oddity, such like the various Aboriginal races in the Americas were regarded. I wonder if there is anybody who knows anything about this matter, as I cannnot seem to find any reference to it on the internet?

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Postby israelite » 1 decade 5 years ago (Thu Aug 05, 2004 6:42 pm)

A friend, as proof of the Gypsy holocaust, sent me a chronology developed from "Gypsy History in Germany and Neighboring Lands: A Chronology to the Holocaust and Beyond," by Ian Hancock

Hancock's chronology starts off in 1890 when a conference was organized in Germany on the Zigeunergeschmeiss ("Gypsy scum") after which the military were empowered to regulate movements of Gypsies. So it seems that there was a problem with gypsies way before National Socialism.

And the Germans were so down on the gypsies they even forgot to include them in the 35 Race Laws. They were not included until a 1937 amendment.

Hancock states that in 1930 Gypsies were recommended for sterilisation and by 1934 Gypsies were being selected from January onwards for sterilization by injection and castration, and being sent to camps at Dachau, Dieselstrasse, Sachsenhausen and the elsewhere.

(Anyone heard of Dieselstrasse before, maybe its in the elsewhere.)

He also claims that in 1939 The Office of Racial Hygiene issued a statement saying "All Gypsies should be treated as hereditarily sick; the only solution is elimination. The aim should therefore be the elimination without hesitation of this defective element in the population."

By 1941 we are informed by Hancock that Gypsies are the first targeted population to be forbidden to serve in the army.

Hell I’m surprised there were any Gypsies left to serve in the army.

After the Gypsies were sent to the camps, there were periodic searches of the camps to discover non-Gypsies. These non-Gypsies were deemed a-socials and shirkers and sent to other camps. Now why would people try to pass themselves off as Gypsies if such terrible things were being done to the Gypsies.

Back to 1939 and Hancock’s assertion that the Office of Racial Hygiene issued a statement saying "All Gypsies should be treated as hereditarily sick; the only solution is elimination. The aim should therefore be the elimination without hesitation of this defective element in the population."

Which brings us to Noma.. Regarding Noma A "witness" to the alleged holocaust, by the name of Miklos Nyiszli, stated the following;

"This terrible disease is exceptionally rare; in ordinary practice you scarcely ever come across it, but here in the Gypsy Camp it was fairly common among both children and adolescents. And so, because of its prevalence, research had been gradually facilitated and considerable progress made towards finding an effective method of treating it.

According to established medical concepts, 'dry gangrene of the face' generally appears in conjunction with measles, scarlet fever and typhoid fever. But these diseases, plus the camps deplorable sanitary conditions, seemed to be the factors which favored its development, since it also existed in the Czech, Polish and Jewish camps.

But it was especially prevalent among Gypsy children, and from this it had been deduced that its presence must be directly related to hereditary syphilis, for the syphilis rate in the Gypsy camp was extremely high.

From these observations a new treatment, consisting of a combination of malaria injections and doses of a drug whose name is 'Novarsenobenozol,' had been developed with most promising results. Dr. Mengele paid daily visits to the experimental barracks and participated actively in all phases of the research."

Research!!!! Dr. Mengele!!!! must be more coded language.

Well I guess you have to save Gypsies from NOMA as you can't gas a dead gypsy. No sir, we only gas healthy gypsies, preferably live ones.

Miklos Nyiszli, also stated the following in his book regarding the Gypsies interned at Theresienstadt

"There were 4,500 of them in all (Gypsies). They did no work, but were assigned the job of policing the neighboring Jewish camps and barracks, where they exercised their authority with unimaginable cruelty."

So, if you were a Gypsy and was sent to Auschwitz you got gassed. If you were sent to Thereseienstadt you got to kick the shit out of the Jews. Life can be so cruel.

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Postby J William » 1 decade 5 years ago (Fri Aug 06, 2004 5:33 am)

This thread on Gypsies reminds me of the purported extermination of the Jehovah's Witnesses in the camps. Every group seems, as Hanover stated, to want the status of a martyr and the "gold" then forthcoming from Germany. It was orginally claimed that 60,000 Jehovah's Witnesses were killed by the Nazis. Upon investigation by Felderer the following came about:

"Felderer's interest in the subject had been aroused during his years as a researcher for the Jehovah's Witness publication Awake!, during which time he prepared a research paper for the Witnesses' governing body on the history of the Jehovah's Witnesses during World War II. Members of the sect were incarcerated in virtually every camp in Nazi Germany during the war and also in such countries as Canada because they refused to bear arms. (18-4225 to 4229) In the beginning, the Jehovah's Witnesses claimed that 60,000 of their members were killed in the Nazi concentration camps. Felderer's research on the question, which took him to the headquarters of the Jehovah's Witnesses in New York, as well as to archives in Toronto, Switzerland and Scandinavian countries, convinced him that the actual number was far lower, and that only about 200 Jehovah's Witnesses were killed. Felderer's research put him on a collision course with the sect; the leadership in New York warned members that they were not allowed to speak to him. In a subsequent Yearbook published by the Jehovah's Witnesses, however, they conceded that only 203 people were killed during the war. Felderer had told Zündel about this research. (18-4226 to 4229; 4645)"
from the IHR site
http://www.ihr.org/books/kulaszka/13felderer.html

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 4 years ago (Fri Dec 31, 2004 2:14 am)

More on the Gypsy lie, courtesy of www.vho.org

Sinti and Roma - Yarns, Legends, and Facts

The Revisionist 2(3) (2004)

subscribe here:
http://vho.org/store/tr.html#sub

excerpt:
8. Conclusions

Our study has shown that:

1. 59 years have now passed since the end of World War II, and in that time no one has come forward with any objective or verifiable documentation supporting the "genocide" alleged to have resulted in the deaths of 500,000 gypsies.

2. The scientific historian can only conclude that there was no such "genocide." Perhaps the best evidence of this is the number of gypsies alive, well, and living in Europe in the early 1990s: 10.8 million. This is a tenfold increase over their prewar numbers.

3. The atrocity figures ceaselessly broadcast by the politicians and corporate media cannot possibly be true. They represent a propagandistic amplification of 1,000% in support of unjustified demands for reparations.

4. No justification for a Berlin memorial exists, and there is no reason to build one.

5. Politicians have no right to knowingly execute public policy on the basis of false and misleading data.

full text here:
http://vho.org/tr/2004/3/Mueller254-259.html

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Postby Carto's Cutlass Supreme » 1 decade 4 years ago (Fri Dec 31, 2004 2:46 am)

Finally I remember reading somewhere a long time ago that Hitler and the Nazis believed that the Gypsies were the remnants of the original Aryan racial wanderers into Europe, presumably from India, and that they had degenerated as a result of racial miscegeneration with the various Asiatic racial groups they came into contact with.


I can't answer your whole question, but yes, the gypsies come from India, and their language "Roma" or "Romany" (I think it's called) is an Indo European language, and get this, the language it's closest to is Sinhalese, which is the Sri Lankan language (south tip of India) and one of the most obscure of the indo-European language family. If you ever see the Sinhalese written language, it's something else, and makes one amazed with the Indo-European language family.

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Postby George B. » 1 decade 4 years ago (Fri Dec 31, 2004 5:28 am)

Carto's Cutlass Supreme wrote:
Finally I remember reading somewhere a long time ago that Hitler and the Nazis believed that the Gypsies were the remnants of the original Aryan racial wanderers into Europe, presumably from India, and that they had degenerated as a result of racial miscegeneration with the various Asiatic racial groups they came into contact with.


I can't answer your whole question, but yes, the gypsies come from India, and their language "Roma" or "Romany" (I think it's called) is an Indo European language, and get this, the language it's closest to is Sinhalese, which is the Sri Lankan language (south tip of India) and one of the most obscure of the indo-European language family. If you ever see the Sinhalese written language, it's something else, and makes one amazed with the Indo-European language family.


As far as I know gypsies came to Europe in the middle ages. They seem to have been kicked out of India, were they originated. Many of them have drawindian traits.

As for the Myth - According to documents, there was a Kindergarten for Gypsies in Auschwitz. Just search for anything with 'Auschwitz' AND 'Kindergarten' or 'Zigeunerkindergarten'.


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