But has anyone noticed that an enormous impediment to the discussion is, in fact, the "Denier" label? And I notice this also when I see these exterminationist "Debunkings" of "denier memes" (examples: viewtopic.php?t=12399) - they always just ridicule the "denier" position into one of absurdity which no actual published revisionist will defend - aka a strawman.
Take for example an imgur album by SirAaronRichards which includes a document on a list of Auschwitz guards who were executioners for some inmates, he says:
But "Deniers" claim there were executions at Auschwitz for many reasons. Death row criminals (murderers, rapists, etc) would be sent there for months of forced labor before being executed. And escape attempts and many other reasons, this was during a war.Oh I'm sure deniers will start rambling on about the fact that the word "execution" could mean a ton of various things, for example the execution of some harmless work-duty...
Other examples of this can be seen in the laughable "21 questions for revisionists" graphic: viewtopic.php?t=12911
Or even the Weber / Hannity interview where it was said that "Deniers" deny the crematoria, shows them on video saying "This is what Holocaust deniers pretend is fake": viewtopic.php?p=93879#p93879
Or Lipstadt's new book, where she lies, saying "For deniers to be right, all survivors would have to be wrong" viewtopic.php?t=12271
You can only wonder if these people are doing this on purpose, or are just being deceived by someone who was doing it on purpose....
In these sorts of "Debates" with regular people, in many cases I find myself forced to waste half of my responses correcting people, saying things like:
- "Deniers" do not "deny" that Einsatzgruppen shot many people, including Jews in the East (disputing numbers and motives)
- "Deniers" do not "deny" that there were crematoria in the camps
- "Deniers" do not "deny" that Germans had anti-Jewish policies and forced them into ghettos and camps (disputing claims of "extermination camps")
- "Deniers" do not "deny" that there were piles of corpses and emaciated bodies, found and photographed during the liberation of these camps (disputing that they are gassed corpses)
- "Deniers" do not "deny" that there was a state-sponsored euthanasia program for mentally ill, incurably sick, and severely disabled people (has nothing to do with a "Holocaust")
- "Deniers" do not "deny" that that "Final Solution" was a real policy (it meant resettlement/deportation/forced labor)
- "Deniers" do not "deny" that a lot of people perished in the camps (disputing the estimated totals)
- "Deniers" do not "deny" that thousands of "survivors" testified about these things listed above, and many/most were telling the truth (albeit with some exaggerations and even lies; - fewer than 5% of Auschwitz testimonies mention gassings)
- "Deniers" do not "deny" that Germans committed some war crimes (like all other sides / they would have been the only belligerents to not do so if that was the case)
For some people you can list all of these things that aren't disputed and they will respond:
So basically you're saying the Holocaust happened?
Yet you are a "Holocaust denier"
Other times these people will insist "Actually some DO say that" (referencing a few teenagers posting online) - these sorts of people are just dishonest to talk to in general, so I just tell them there's no published revisionists claiming that.
What are your strategies for dealing with this?
The following images can be posted:
I think they do a good job of explaining.
You can also demand they define the "Holocaust" but they will be as vague as possible, and essentially it would be a definition which encompasses all sorts of things that are not actually disputed as pointed out above. It will be "Every seemingly bad thing the NSDAP did" or "every imagined/real/exaggerated grievance or misfortune befallen onto European Jews 1933-1945"
You could also you take a route where you:
1. (optional) reject the "Denier" label completely
2. State something like "Actually I do not 'deny' probably about 90-95% of the things which you consider to be the 'Holocaust' - whether you realize it or not" / "I only deny 5-10% of the so-called 'Holocaust' actually"
Another strategy is to just shift the debate into a specific sub-topic like:
- Only dispute/talk about Treblinka 2, Belzec, and/or Sobibor and the alleged mass graves there
- Only dispute/talk about Auschwitz gas chambers
- Only dispute/talk about the 6,000,000 number
- Only dispute/talk about the "Final Solution" policy (it's harder to pull this one off without straying into "general Holocaust debate")