Well water at Treblinka

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Carto's Cutlass Supreme
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Well water at Treblinka

Postby Carto's Cutlass Supreme » 1 decade 5 years ago (Sat May 21, 2005 1:49 pm)

On page 39 of Yitzhak Arad's book on Treblinka, there is a map:

Image
(Added by Webmaster, uploaded by CCS)
A little circle indicates a well. One of wells has burial pits on both sides. The other two wells are an estimated 3-5 minute walk away.

Arad's book should have been called Treblinka: The Ideal Place For a Death Camp. Because if you dig down a certain amount, an amount needed to bury 600,000 bodies (not a small hole!) you get dry dirt, dig a little further and you get fresh water, and 60 million pounds of decaying human matter willl never mix with the fresh water below!

There's a reason why hospitals, if they have pieces of human tissue, put it in a bag with the label "biohazard" on it, and dispose of it in a special way.

600,000 buried bodies: Let's say each person on average weighs 100 pounds. That is 60 million pounds of flesh, bone, intestines and blood decaying underground. This is what one well is nearly surrounded by. And you're somehow getting fresh drinking water from this well?

The presence of a well implies that if you dig down a certain amount of feet that you will hit water. Yet, you can dig down and bury 60 million pounds of human flesh with no problem, and not hitting a water table so that later when you decide to dig up all the bodies, they are all dry and able to be cremated on open air fires. Afterall, you can't exactly place sludge and bone on an open-air fire pit. Maybe they didn't dig down very far to bury the bodies. Suppose only the depth of a big swimming pool. Well I did the math on that, and figured out that you'd need the space of 80 Olympic swimming pools to do that. Yet on the map, the "burial pits" constitute around one sixth the size of the whole camp, and that's not including the woods area. In fact all the buildings take up about as much space as the burial pits.

Sobibor has one well. (page 35) And the burial place shown on Arad's map barely takes any space at all. So the hole must have been deep for 400,000 bodies! On a map of the region where Sobibor is located (shown in the link below) check out the proximity to little lakes, creeks, and the Bug River. All of which imply a high water table for being able to bury 400,000 bodies and then dig them up and being able to cremate them on open air fires and have fresh well water during the whole process: See:
http://www.mazal.org/Maps/Sobibor-02.htm

This whole situation would be problematic for 1000 bodies, let alone 1 million bodies which is how many were buried at Treblinka and Sobibor combined.

1000 is one thousandth of a million.

Yankel Wiernik, the only inmate who wrote a book on Treblinka goes on and on about the well surrounded by the burial pits. It apparently was a fine well for fresh water! It's clear that this is the well he's talking about because the prisoners' living quarters and the guard tower are right next to the well, and this is where the escape happened:

"Camp No. 2 was entirely different. It contained a barrack for the workers, 30 x 10 meters, a laundry, a small laboratory, quarters for 17 women, a guard station and a well. In addition there were 13 chambers in which inmates were gassed"

"Beyond the area of our barrack there was a well that supplied the kitchen and laundry with water. We made use also of this "gateway," although it was guarded all the time. We made frequent trips to that well, even when we did not need water, in order to get the guards used to seeing us come and go."

The day before he escaped, guess what he was working on? Another well! LOL. Likely in the same area, since he states he's not in camp number 1:

"It so happened that I did not go to Camp No. 1 for several days because I was busy constructing an octagonal building with a suspended roof, resembling a guard station, that was to house a well."

In the following quote they're getting well water as a cover for getting ready to escape, but clearly this is a normal operating water well, which is why the guard didn't notice anything unusual.

"A crew was also picked for fetching water from the well. At around 5 p.m. there suddenly was a great need for water. The gate leading to the well was opened wide and the number of water carriers was considerably augmented."

"As soon as the signal shot rang out, the guard at the well had been killed and his weapons taken from him."

Source: Yankel Wiernik: A Year In Treblinka
http://www.zchor.org/treblink/wiernik.htm



We have a John Ball air photo of the terrain. It's flat land.

For Olympic Swimming pool math, see:
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=1768

Map Source: Belzec, Sobibor, Treblinka. The Operation Reinhard Death Camps. By Yitzhak Arad. Indiana University Press. pg. 39.
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But I know. This is one of those "Flat Earth Society" type posts. It could easily be explained away by any expert on the subject. That's why there's barely 3 professors in the United States and Europe who don't believe the entire Treblinka and Sobibor story.

Erik D. Schmid
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Postby Erik D. Schmid » 1 decade 5 years ago (Tue May 24, 2005 12:49 pm)

With regards to Treblinka, how does one access the downloads posted on the Announcements board?

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Postby Carto's Cutlass Supreme » 1 decade 5 years ago (Tue May 24, 2005 3:02 pm)

Hi Eric: I think you can right-click and select "save to disk" or something like that.

My post isn't really that effective without a photo of the map I was looking at in Arad's book. Arad mentions that well working fine also. These people will mention the bad smell from decaying flesh, but then they'll forget about it, and act like everything is normal. You know, fetching some water from the well to make dinner in the kitchen.

What's laughable, is it's like a Hollywood script: fetching water from a well when you're plotting a mutiny! Exciting and with suspense. Just like a made for t.v movie. In fact Arad mentions one of the guards being tossed into this well! But you can't bury the population of a whole city in a mass grave next to a well and expect groundwater in the immediate vicinity not to be contaminated.

I was wrong about Wiernik being the only one to write a book on Treblinka. Wilenberg did many years later. Those are the only two I know of.

Erik D. Schmid
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Postby Erik D. Schmid » 1 decade 5 years ago (Tue May 24, 2005 4:43 pm)

I tried that, but it seems that due to the fact I have upgraded to Service Pack 2, my player no longer plays files of that type. Oh well.

Anyway, you mention the story being laughable. Well, I would concur if it weren't for the fact that so many believe such nonesense. Sad is what I would call it. :lol:

I mean, just one body buried next to a well will cause it to become contaminated. Now, add several hundred thousand... :roll:

On a slightly related note, I was talking to an aquaintence who happens to be a hasidic jew about the holohoax and he relates this story to me of how he visited one of the camps, I can't remember which one, and there were still ashes in the fields. :shock: Honestly now. I was speechless. This is normally a very grounded and scientific person, but when this subject comes up, he like so many others, seem to lose control of their common sense.

Of course it is fun to get them going once in a while... :twisted:

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Postby Carto's Cutlass Supreme » 1 decade 5 years ago (Tue May 24, 2005 6:56 pm)

You can't dig deep, because you're clearly going to hit water. The water table is high next to rivers isn't it? On flat land? I mean the Bug River is right there. Not to mention that the accounts talk about wells. So if you can't dig deep then you have to dig shallow and spread out. Considering that, Sobibor, even closer to the river, has a burial spot on the map in Yitzhak Arad's book for around 400,000 bodies that is the size of maybe twice the garden. (Page 35.)

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Postby Carto's Cutlass Supreme » 1 decade 5 years ago (Mon May 30, 2005 5:05 pm)

Here it is:
Image

33: Old gas chambers (3 chambers)
34: The 5 Burial pits
35: "The Roasts" for burning bodies
36: Prisoners' living quarters, kitchen, and latrines.

The whole map can be found by clicking the following. It's copyrighted by Yitzhak Arad:
http://www.codoh.com/uploads/wholearadmap.jpg

Maybe someone will say "maybe they boiled the water" but I don't think that's enough. I think the bacteria creates toxins, that's why people can get sick from well-cooked food in addition to raw food.

Below are more photos of Arad's book, (I've added yellow highlight.) This well was a featured object in the escape. Obviously it's a working well for fresh water.

Keep in mind that the following quote from Arad's book takes place at the time of the supposed "breakout" in August 1943. By this time all the bodies from the burial pits had been dug up and burned. But this is summer which means that all those bodies had been there for most of the winter and early spring, during the snows and rains. Plus an excavator pulled the bodies out, which means lots of body parts, body fragments, body fluids. would have still been mixed with the dirt. Also, just days or weeks earlier, there had still been bodies in the pits.

Image

and
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SOURCE: Belzec, Sobibor, Treblinka The Operation Reinhard Death Camps. 1987. Indiana University Press, page 289 and page 292 respectively.
Excerpted under Fair Use. Copyright 1987 Yitzhak Arad.

On page 289, notice that it says that there is a distance of around 20 meters from the gate in the barracks fence to the water well. That gives you a rough idea of the size of the whole place, since Arad doesn't include a distance key. Plus we know the 10 rooms in the chamber are bedroom sized rooms, so that is another way to get an idea of the size. Considering this, the size of the burial pits are nowhere near large enough to bury 700,000 people, and we know they didn't go outside that area because there's a minefield, barbed wire and anti-tank obstacles. But we also know they couldn't bury bodies very deep, because there's a water well next door, so they would hit water at a certain point if burying deep. Also, we know that when they dug up the bodies they were dry enough to be cremated on open air fires. Conclusion: the whole thing didn't happen. It's a lie.
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This is a minor thing but on the map, notice the "anti-tank" obstacle? It lines the whole camp. Why have that? Did they think that this was going to be the Russian Front? Or the Soviets would sneak a couple surprise tanks behind enemy lines? O.k that's the least of my problems with Treblinka, but still, I had to mention it


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