Rudolf Reder: Belzec's one escapee, the one survivor

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Rudolf Reder: Belzec's one escapee, the one survivor

Postby Carto's Cutlass Supreme » 1 decade 3 years ago (Tue Sep 20, 2005 6:10 pm)

There allegedly was a woman who escaped right after arriving, but she didn't see much. Then maybe two others who didn't survive the war. Another supposed escapee was killed shortly after the war. So we have the one Belzec escapee. One Belzec survivor: Rudolf Reder.

Considering that 600,000 people were allegedly murdered there, what kind of tight security did they have if only one inmate made it out alive? Here's how Reder did it: 4 SS men and one guard took Reder out of the death camp in a truck right into the middle of a city (Lvov) to get some supplies. After loading the supplies the SS men went into the city to have some fun, and left one guard to watch Reder: they both sat in the cab of the truck! The guard fell asleep, so Reder slipped out and ran into a busy city street.

It seems a bit casual doesn't it? I just don't picture death camp workers being taken for an errand in the middle of a busy part of a city. You'd think if it was like this, more than one person would have escaped! Can you imagine some guy in a prison outfit walking by department stores, jewelry stores, and cafés in the middle of a big city casually helping some SS men as they load sheets of tin? And since when do 4 SS men get sent on an errand to an occupied city to fetch some tin?
At the end of November, I had already been confined to the hell of Belzec for a few months. One morning I was told by the bully Irman that there was a need for tin in the camp.....I went with a truck, accompanied by four SS men and a guard to Lvov. After a whole day of loading the tin sheets, I remained in the car, under the guard of one of the bullies, while all the others went for entertainment. For hours I sat without moving. Then I saw that my guard had fallen asleep and was snoring. Without thinking, instinctively, I slid down the car. The bully continued sleeping. I stood on the sidewalk, appearing as if I were arranging the tin sheets, but slowly moving toward Legionow Street, where the traffic was quite heavy. I pulled my hat over my eyes; the streets were dark and nobody saw me. I remembered where a Polish woman, my landlady lived. I went there, and she hid me...

Belzec, Sobibor, Treblinka
Yitzhak Arad
page 265
quoting from a book Reder wrote


And it probably gets worse, because the only place tin sheets are ever mentioned regarding death camps is where they place the bones on them to then crush the bones. It must be a really hard metal or something.
Last edited by Carto's Cutlass Supreme on Tue Sep 20, 2005 6:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Ajax » 1 decade 3 years ago (Tue Sep 20, 2005 6:19 pm)

Every time I see his name I still cannot believe how Reder is taken seriously. The man is a prize bullshitter, for want of a better term. The only man to 'survive' Belzec, and yet he was able to know every single technical detail about the alleged homicidal 'gas chambers'. It's too perfect to be true.
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Postby Mark_Twain » 1 decade 3 years ago (Wed Sep 28, 2005 12:32 pm)

I will call your Belzec and raise you a 'Auschwitz Wolf Girl'

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Postby Ajax » 1 decade 3 years ago (Sat Oct 01, 2005 4:56 pm)

I'll raise you again with Filip Mueller's 'dancing buckets of flesh'... :lol:
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Postby Speeder » 1 decade 3 years ago (Sun Oct 02, 2005 10:00 am)

I will raise and see you both with David Olere's Kremawurst claims :roll:

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Postby Haldan » 1 decade 3 years ago (Sun Oct 02, 2005 1:08 pm)

Sorry, chaps, but my Ace the Wolfboy of Auschwitz beats yours

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Postby Carto's Cutlass Supreme » 1 decade 3 years ago (Sun Oct 02, 2005 2:51 pm)

Nobody else escaped Belzec because the barbed wire fence with tree branches propped into it, was just too formidable of a barrier to ever break through.

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Postby Daniel Saez Lorente » 1 decade 3 years ago (Wed Oct 05, 2005 3:24 am)

Carto's Cutlass Supreme wrote:Nobody else escaped Belzec because the barbed wire fence with tree branches propped into it, was just too formidable of a barrier to ever break through.


No problem, just pick up a tree branch and stand still until nobody's looking, then move a few feet. They'll just think you're a tree.

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Postby nny » 1 decade 3 years ago (Wed Oct 12, 2005 1:18 am)

Carto's Cutlass Supreme wrote:One Belzec survivor: Rudolf Reder.


From : http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=30

- only one Jew survived, Chaim Herszman, the other 299 of the final labor crew used for removing all the traces were sent to Sobibor and shot on arrival....no evidence for that given, a mere assertion, typical


Sorry I'm confused, was Rudolf Reder the only survivor? Or was Chaim Herszman the only Jewish survivor? Whom do I believe, Carto or Hannover?

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 3 years ago (Wed Oct 12, 2005 9:45 am)

nny, at the thread link you posted:
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=30
I listed the source as:
'East European Jewish Affairs', v. 28, no.2, 1998/9, p.49-62.
Your argument is with them. Oops.

The fact of the matter is that neither 'survived' because there was nothing to 'survive'. They are both liars however. There is no evidence whatsoever that Belzec was a 'death camp'. Laughable really.

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2nd Annual 'Holocau$t' Tale Contest
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- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Postby Carto's Cutlass Supreme » 1 decade 3 years ago (Thu Oct 13, 2005 1:38 am)

Hi NNY. Good question:
Sorry I'm confused, was Rudolf Reder the only survivor?


A few others escaped (according to the story) but only one survived into the post-war period. Chaim Hertzmann is described by Yitzhak Arad as being killed by "Polish anti-semites" in 1946.

The only alleged survivor past 1946 was Reder.

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 3 years ago (Thu Oct 13, 2005 9:23 am)

Chaim Hertzmann is described by Yitzhak Arad as being killed by "Polish anti-semites" in 1946.

Or more likely killed by anti-communist Polish resistance.

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Postby Laurentz Dahl » 1 decade 1 year ago (Tue Feb 19, 2008 9:40 pm)

Does anyone have a English or German translation of the short Chaim Hirszman testimony? I found a bit of it using Google Books, the remainder of it not being accesible. It is quoted (in part it seems) in a book by Dora Apel called "Memory Effects: The Holocaust and the Art of Secondary Witnessing", published by Rutgers University Press. The first part of the quote, found on the bottom of page 137, reads:

I and some other men were appointed to take the people to the kiln. I was sent with the women. The Ukrainian Schmidt, an Ethnic German, was standing at the entrance to the gas chamber and hitting with a knout - a knotted whip - every entering woman. Before the door was closed, he fired a few shots from his revolver and the door closed automatically and forty minutes later we went in and carried the bodies out to a special ramp. We shaved the hair off the bodies


Also using Google Books I found the following on Hirszman, in Tadeusz Piotrowski's book Poland's Holocaust: Ethnic Strife, Collaboration with Occupying Forces and Genocide in the Second Republic, 1918-1947, p. 341:

Gilbert's reference for Chaim Hirszman can be found on p. 817 of his work. According to Henryk Pajak, however, Hirszman was not killed because he was a Jew; rather, he was killed by the WiN (in his own house) because the was a n "active and dangerous functionary of the Provincial UB in Lublin." A short description of the murder by one of the participants (based on court records) follows. See Henryk Pajak, Konspiracja mlodziezy szkolnej 1945-1955 (Lublin: Retro, 1994), pp. 130 - 131.


Can anyone identify "WiN" and "UB"? I'm not very knowledgable regarding Polish resistance movements and partisans.

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Postby Wahrheit » 1 decade 1 year ago (Thu Feb 21, 2008 3:45 pm)

Laurentz Dahl wrote:Can anyone identify "WiN" and "UB"? I'm not very knowledgable regarding Polish resistance movements and partisans.


"WiN" is for Wolnosc i Niezawislosc-freedom and independence, which was an anti-communist group in Poland. Basic information can be found here.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolno%C5%9 ... 5%9B%C4%87

As for "UB", IIRC it was a Communist set up Polish intelligence group, used to solidy the state's "liberation", and flatten out any wrinkles the country might have had through their own methods. The Polish version of the NKVD. Basic wikipedia stuff here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urz%C4%85d ... %C5%84stwa

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Postby Laurentz Dahl » 1 decade 1 year ago (Mon Apr 07, 2008 6:11 pm)

From the few brief quotes from Hirszman's testimony I have found it sounds like good stuff, embarassing to the Holocaust enforcers:

A transport of children up to three years of age arrived. The workers were told to dig a big hole into which the children were thrown and buried alive. I cannot forget how the earth rose, until the children suffocated.


http://www.holocaustresearchproject.org/ar/belzec.html

To boot Hirzman also claimed that 800 000 Jews were killed at Belzec only during the last two months of operation.

If someone could help me locate Hirzman's full testimony I would be most grateful.


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