Andrew Mathis attempts damage control on gassing lies

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Andrew Mathis attempts damage control on gassing lies

Postby Hannover » 1 decade 1 year ago (Tue Oct 18, 2005 5:46 pm)

In an attempt at damage control for the wild allegations, Andrew Mathis, spokesman for the crackpot 'holocau$t' History Project said:
"No credible figure has ever claimed that 20,000 or 40,000 people were gassed in a day."

- Andrew Mathis

Green, Mathis refuted / cyanide: lice, humans, & more

however:

"Birkenau celebrated its record of gassings in one day: 30,000 people."

- Witold Pilecki, alleged spy at Auschwitz and subject of a up & coming Polish film.

Witold Pilecki / Auschwitz spy, said 5 mil died there, etc.

and more:
"The horrendous record belongs to Auschwitz, with 24,000 dead in a single day, in August 1944."

Primo Levi, Survival in Auschwitz....', Summit Books, 1986, p.388

and still more:

"With Himmler's orders to step up the pace of the gassings in the summer of 1944,the rate that people being annihilated each day was astronomical: 46,000 IN A 24 HOUR PERIOD on July 24 (the record for any of the camps)."

- Rosa Robota, so called 'holocau$t heroine'

http://www.datasync.com/~davidg59/rosa.html

So, are all these characters deemed 'not credible'? No doubt. Mathis is merely attempting to deflect from the bizarre & truly absurd nature of the claims as there is no credible evidence for a single gassing.

- Hannover


If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Postby PotPie » 1 decade 4 months ago (Sun Jun 10, 2007 3:01 am)

Great points there. They either recognize and ignore sensationalist authors or intentionally and selectively quote them to connect the whole together, such as Hilberg, Van Pelt, and others have done with Filip Mueller. After reading Mueller and Lengyel myself, I was quite surprised at how blatantly bogus much of their writings are, and how Lengyel's book was clearly written by more than person (without even having to research her plagiarism.) I thought going in that these people would have written something more difficult to detect or debunk. Both of these people are not only quoted by holohoax historians but also widely praised in reader reviews on the websites of book sellers. Mueller had a story about jumping buckets of human muscle and inmates being ribbited to death in a pond and Lengyel spoke of German dogs trained to rape women. The same people who swallow this rubbish probably also believe in the bibilical stories of voices coming from bushes and that the moon is made of cheese.

The 'historians' know that Vrba is a false witness and that Mueller and Lengyel are plagiarists, and they quote them anyway. This is the bottom line of all this. These people are frauds and they are still used. These 'historians' have not made the slightest attempt to rectify this situation and bald-facedly continue to cite these people. Therefore, the history of the holocaust as we know it is a lie because its main witnesses were liars.

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Re: Holo. Hist. Proj.'s Andrew Mathis attempts damage contro

Postby Blogbuster » 5 years 9 months ago (Mon Jan 09, 2012 4:06 pm)

Andrew Mathis has a history of requiring damage control. He and his online affiliations are the alabatross around the neck of Holocaust believers. The stupid things he says and does cause more damage to believer cause than anyone else I know.

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Re: Holo. Hist. Proj.'s Andrew Mathis attempts damage contro

Postby Haldan » 5 years 9 months ago (Mon Jan 09, 2012 5:32 pm)

Blogbuster:
I suspect this may be one of the reasons Andy has retired from the debate. We have him covered here, root and branch.
That man is, and I have evidence of this, a box full of unsupportable evidence.

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Re: Holo. Hist. Proj.'s Andrew Mathis attempts damage contro

Postby SKcz » 5 years 9 months ago (Mon Jan 09, 2012 7:41 pm)

Really, Mr. Mathis?

Sarasota Herald-Tribune
"The crematoriums, preserved intact could dispose of 60,000 bodies a day and did."

Sarasota Herald-Tribune June 8, 1979
http://fotos.fotoflexer.com/2f1f8657e1e ... d5d145.jpg


David Baker
"Twenty-Thousand (20,000) Jews were massacred, cremated, choked and poisoned here in
one day. At this place, Satan installed the most sophisticated
extermination assembly lines in the history of the industry of murder."


David baker, Israeli Ministry of Education, May 2, 2000
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/camps/ftp ... ech.000502


He he, I know, I know, now the "credible" ones

Olga Lengyel
"After June, 1943, the gas chamber was reserved exclusively for Jews and Gypsies.. Three hundred and sixty corpses every half-hour, which was all the time it took to reduce human flesh to ashes, made 720 per hour, or 17,280 corpses per twenty-four hour shift. And the ovens, with murderous efficiency, functioned day and night. However, one must also reckon the death pits, which could destroy another 8,000 cadavers a day. In round numbers, about 24,000 corpses were handled each day. An admirable production record, one that speaks well for German industry."

Olga Lengyel, "Five Chimneys: A Woman Survivor’s True Story of Auschwitz", 1947, pp. 80-81.



Kitty Hart-Moxon
"Working around the clock, the four units together could dispose of about 18,000 bodies every twenty-four hours, while the open pits coped with a further 8,000 in the same period." (26,000)

Kitty Hart-Moxon, "Return to Auschwitz", 1981 p. 118.


Enjoy Kitty´s lies in Kitty - Return to Auschwitz 1979
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jowmbGGO ... re=related

Or in this "documentary" she "witnessed the entire process of extermination"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4w2uA646 ... ed#t=0m40s
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0815441/

I recommend to watch entire movie, but on your own risk, they use all kind of false claims and lies including Vrba-Wetzler (they even showed numbers from Vrba and legendary false map of Kremas), aerial photos, lying witnesses and so on.

Martin Gilbert
"The deliberate attempt to destroy systematically all of Europe’s Jews was unsuspected in the spring and early summer of 1942: the very period during which it was at its most intense, and during which hundreds of thousands of Jews were being gassed every day at Belzec, Chelmo, Sobibor and Treblinka." (emphasis added) (200,000 / 4 = 50,000)

Martin Gilbert, "Auschwitz and the Allies", 1981, p.26.


Samuel Rajzman
"Every day 5-6 transports with 60 boxcars each arrived in the camp. Of course, there were days on which 1-2 trains arrived, but that was an exception, not the rule. Six to seven thousand people arrived with each transport."

(5 or 6 x 6,000 or 7,000 = 30,000/35,000, or 36,000/42,000, Mattogno/Graf generously subtracted 1-2 transports so they calculated "only" 24,000, or 28,000)

Samuel Rajzmann, GARF, 7445-2-126, p. 240.
TREBLINKA: EXTERMINATION CAMP OR TRANSIT CAMP? Mattogno/Graf, 2004, 2005, 2011, p. 155.
http://vho.org/GB/Books/t/5.html#ftnref460

"Transports arrived there every day; their number depended on the number of trains arriving; sometimes three, four, or five trains filled exclusively with Jews(...)" (emphasis added)

Samuel Rajzman interrogation, IMT, Nuremberg, Nuremberg Trial Proceedings Vol. 8, February 27, 1946, p. 324
http://avalon.law.yale.edu/imt/02-27-46.asp
(later during interrogation he stated "only" 10-12,000 gassed daily, p. 327.)

“Every day there were about 20,000 corpses. […] There were days on which up to 25,000 people were killed.”

Samuel Rajzman, Wydawnictwo Centralnej Zydowskiej Komisji Historycznej (ed.), Dokumenty i Materialy, Tom I: Obozy, revised by N. Blumental, Lodz 1946, pp. 183, 186.
TREBLINKA: EXTERMINATION CAMP OR TRANSIT CAMP? Mattogno/Graf, 2004, 2005, 2011, p. 155.
http://vho.org/GB/Books/t/5.html#ftnref461


Jankiel Wiernik
"Between ten and twelve thousand people were gassed each day. [...]there were periods when as many as 30,000 people were gassed in one day."

Jankiel Wiernik, in Donat (ed.)"The Death Camp Treblinka", Holocaust Library, New York 1979, pp. 159, 164.
TREBLINKA: EXTERMINATION CAMP OR TRANSIT CAMP? Mattogno/Graf, 2004, 2005, 2011,p.155.
http://vho.org/GB/Books/t/5.html#ftnref463


Manfred Blank
"In Treblinka many times up to 5 transports with an average of 6,000 people each arrived in one day." (5 x 6 = 30,000)

Manfred Blank in Adalbert Rückerl, NS-Prozesse, Verlag C.f. Müller, Karlsruhe 1971, p. 38.
TREBLINKA: EXTERMINATION CAMP OR TRANSIT CAMP? Mattogno/Graf, 2004, 2005, 2011, p.155.
http://vho.org/GB/Books/t/5.html#ftnref464


Alexander Donat
"On such days the gas chambers were in operation until 1 a.m. and finished off more than 20,000 corpses within 24 hours."

Alexander Donat "The Death Camp Treblinka", Holocaust Library, New York 1979, p. 52.
TREBLINKA: EXTERMINATION CAMP OR TRANSIT CAMP? Mattogno/Graf, 2004, 2005, 2011, p.155.
http://vho.org/GB/Books/t/5.html#ftnref465

.
Michael Tregenza
"During the period with the highest number of gassings, in August and September 1942, there were three or more transports daily, frequently with over sixty cars, each car containing at least 100 persons. This amounts to a daily number of some 12,000 victims. Rudolf Reder, a survivor of the camp, has confirmed this figure." (emphasis added)

(3 or 4 x (60 x 100) = 18,000 or 24,000)

Michael Tregenza, “Das vergessene Lager des Holocaust,” in I. Wojak, P. Hayes (eds.), “Arisierung” im Nationalsozialismus, Volksgemeinschaft, Raub und Gedächtnis, Campus Verlag, Frankfurt/Main, New York 2000, p. 253
BELZEC IN P ROPAGANDA, TESTIMONIES, ARCHEOLOGICAL RESEARCH & HISTORY, Mattogno, 2004, 2005, 2010 and Graf. p.49.


Brief Summary:

Sarasota Herald-Tribune - 60,000
David Baker - 20,000
Olga Lengyel - 24,000
Kitty Hart-Moxon - 26,000
Martin Gilbert - 50,000
Samuel Rajzman - 30,000/35,000 or 36,000/42,000 resp. 24,000 or 28,000 and also 20,000 and 25,000
Jankiel Wiernik - 30,000
Manfred Blank - 30,000 (Wiernik/Blank - convergence of evidence?)
Alexander Donat - 20,000
Michael Tregenza - 24,000

C08. I challenge Mr. Mathis to clearly state if he agree that here are witnesses, historians or other persons who claimed figures above 20,000 and more as a number of victims per day.

C09. I challenge Mr. Mathis to clearly state if he consider all these peoples as untrustworthy. If no, please, specify why do you think that they are credible.

C10.
I challenge Mr. Mathis to clearly state why he use some names (Rajzman, Wiernik, Donat, Lengyel...) from this post as a source in his "Holocaust-history.org" project if he consider them as utrustworthy"

edit - I corrected bad name spelling and added challenge and also challenge number.

SKcz

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Re: Holo. Hist. Proj.'s Andrew Mathis attempts damage contro

Postby Zulu » 5 years 9 months ago (Tue Jan 10, 2012 6:23 am)

SKcz wrote:Brief Summary:

Sarasota Herald-Tribune - 60,000
David Baker - 20,000
Olga Lengyel - 24,000
Kitty Hart-Moxon - 26,000
Martin Gilbert - 50,000
Samuel Rajzman - 30,000/35,000 or 36,000/42,000 resp. 24,000 or 28,000 and also 20,000 and 25,000
Jankiel Wiernik - 30,000
Manfred Blank - 30,000 (Wiernik/Blank - convergence of evidence?)
Alexander Donat - 20,000
Michael Tregenza - 24,000
SKcz

It could be interesting to first ask Andrew Mathis who/what do he consider a "credible source" and how many burned corpses/day such source does allege.

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Re: Holo. Hist. Proj.'s Andrew Mathis attempts damage contro

Postby SKcz » 5 years 9 months ago (Tue Jan 10, 2012 7:21 am)

Zulu wrote: It could be interesting to first ask Andrew Mathis who/what do he consider a "credible source" and how many burned corpses/day such source does allege.


I don´t know, but we know for sure (thanks to the citation in the first comment) what Andrew Mathis does not consider as credible, he does not consider as credible figures above 20,000 victims. For me it means, that he used not credible names in his project. I await his explanation and answers on my challenges.

He propably must consider as credible figures between 10,000-20,000 since the most of the other "credible" peoples stated numbers in this range, for me it is logical to assume that since he does not consider as credible the figures too high above 20,000, he propably does not consider as credible figures which are too low and below some point. In the case of not credibility of figures between 10,000-20,000, he would not have any sources and figures.

C11. I challenge Mr. Mathis to clearly state what figure/s and source/s (which speaks about number of gassed/burned) he consider as credible and why? In the case of the capacity was different in every camp, state these figure/s and source/s for every camp separately.

Thanks for inspiration for challenge Zulu.

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Re: Holo. Hist. Proj.'s Andrew Mathis attempts damage contro

Postby Blogbuster » 5 years 9 months ago (Tue Jan 10, 2012 9:17 am)

I for one would love to see Mathis challenged but it is doubtful he will accept. The HC folks seem to prefer to attack from behind the relative safety of their computers. As a believer, I have serious problems in the way they purport to debate revisionist thinking. Personally, I respect all opinions, those I agree with and those I don't. But the stupid comments these guys make, their negative approach to debate, their mud slinging, email threats, and pure hatred of anyone who doesn't see things the way they do is a such a drag on people who only seek truth and respectful discourse.

I just don't get how any of them believe that type of behavior is in any way professional or productive. Certainly over compensating with bloated cut and paste manifestos does little to make up for their negative ways.

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Re: Holo. Hist. Proj.'s Andrew Mathis attempts damage contro

Postby Zulu » 5 years 9 months ago (Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:27 am)

SKcz wrote:
Zulu wrote: It could be interesting to first ask Andrew Mathis who/what do he consider a "credible source" and how many burned corpses/day such source does allege.


I don´t know, but we know for sure (thanks to the citation in the first comment) what Andrew Mathis does not consider as credible, he does not consider as credible figures above 20,000 victims. For me it means, that he used not credible names in his project. I await his explanation and answers on my challenges.

He propably must consider as credible figures between 10,000-20,000 since the most of the other "credible" peoples stated numbers in this range, for me it is logical to assume that since he does not consider as credible the figures too high above 20,000, he propably does not consider as credible figures which are too low and below some point. In the case of not credibility of figures between 10,000-20,000, he would not have any sources and figures.
SKcz

In my opinion, everyone who would allege that he is able to "evaluate" quantities superior to 1000 with no registering support or reliable landmark is not credible. For that kind of count we have the death books (Sterbebücher) maintained by the SS at the camps and/or the time sheet of the crematories. We know the famous Gusen's timesheet. http://www.holocaust-history.org/gusen- ... timesheet/. A similar document from every crematory at Auschwitz would be useful to establish the actual performance of the ovens installed there. Moreover, the numbers of registered deaths can be matched with the consumption of coke or equivalent at the crematories through the documents related with coke/wood deliveries.
Why would such registers be "not credible"? The task for historians is to gather all of these documents in order to establish properly the statistics. The Russians have recuperated all the death books of Auschwitz but they maintained secret a part of them (in particular those from 1944), for a good reason apparently: to maintain the uncertainty about real numbers. However, there are the only material evidences able to allow realistic calculations about the deaths occured at that camp. According to me, those papers would be actually the really "credible sources" we need.

Concerning that point Faurisson made some remarks about the Pressac's work
Deliberate omissions
It will be remembered that the only task I assigned to Pressac was that regarding documents relevant to the cremations (See Before his first departure for Auschwitz, following our meeting, he had asked me what research he could undertake there for me. I had told him that I was interested in the question of the cremations: the officially recorded number of the bodies incinerated; status of persons cremated (inmates/guards/German soldiers and officers and members of their families); number of employees assigned to cremation of corpses and to the incinerations in the rubbish ovens; the duration of the cremations; time cards, etc. I thought, as a matter of fact, that those numbers alone would demonstrate the impossibility of the stupendous number of cremations that would have been required by the gassing of hundreds of thousands of victims, over and above the cremations necessitated by the ravages of the epidemics in the camp. above). Neither at the time of his first sojourn at Auschwitz, nor during his second stay, it appears, had he been able to find time to study the matter. Now that his book has appeared, his continued silence on this point is striking.

One will note that he is very careful not to say that such documents do not exist. He knows all too well that they do exist. He prefers to avoid talking about them. Why does he conceal from his readers the existence of a host of documents that prove that a record was made of each cremation? In the case of teeth extracted from a corpse before its cremation, the usual German attention to detail went so far as to demand the completion of a printed form, with the heading "Dental Station of the Auschwitz Camp," supplying the date of cremation, the complete identity of the internee, his registration number, the number of teeth (right, left, upper, lower), etc. (see Contribution à l'histoire d'Auschwitz, Auschwitz Museum, 1968, the photograph of the document between pages 80 and 81).

Why does Pressac not mention this type of document, or a single one of the documents required by the Auschwitz chancellery on the death of anyone, with twenty or so signatures for deaths from natural causes and about thirty signatures for deaths from non-natural causes (Dr. Tadeusz Paczula, former prisoner, "The Organization and Administration of the Camp Hospital in the Concentration Camp Auschwitz I," International Auschwitz Committee, [Blue] Anthology, Vol. II, Part I, Warsaw, 1969, page 45)?

Why does he not make the slightest mention of the "death registers" in which the Germans collected, with a separate page for each decedent, all information relevant to each death? The Revisionists had pointed out the existence of two or three volumes of those Totenbücher, or Sterbebücher, in the Auschwitz Museum, and of forty or so in Moscow: all of them, naturally, inaccessible to independent researchers. It was only under pressure from the Revisionists, notably at the time of the Zündel trial in Toronto in 1988, that the decision was made in 1989 to reveal the existence of the registers to the general public. Pressac was unlucky. His book, in which he conceals the existence of the registers, was no sooner finished than the Soviet Union revealed that, for its part, it retained a large number — but not all — of these precious documents, which strike a lethal blow to the extermination legend. Pressac, by failing to mention that there were also two or three of these death registers in the archives of the Auschwitz Museum — to which he had free access — lied by omission.

http://www.historiography-project.org/b ... eview.html

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Re: Holo. Hist. Proj.'s Andrew Mathis attempts damage contro

Postby Zulu » 5 years 9 months ago (Thu Jan 12, 2012 9:40 am)

SKcz wrote:
Zulu wrote: It could be interesting to first ask Andrew Mathis who/what do he consider a "credible source" and how many burned corpses/day such source does allege.


I don´t know, but we know for sure (thanks to the citation in the first comment) what Andrew Mathis does not consider as credible, he does not consider as credible figures above 20,000 victims. For me it means, that he used not credible names in his project. I await his explanation and answers on my challenges.

He propably must consider as credible figures between 10,000-20,000 since the most of the other "credible" peoples stated numbers in this range, for me it is logical to assume that since he does not consider as credible the figures too high above 20,000, he propably does not consider as credible figures which are too low and below some point. In the case of not credibility of figures between 10,000-20,000, he would not have any sources and figures.

C11. I challenge Mr. Mathis to clearly state what figure/s and source/s (which speaks about number of gassed/burned) he consider as credible and why? In the case of the capacity was different in every camp, state these figure/s and source/s for every camp separately.
SKcz

I would propose him to use as credible source the document USSR-8
In Auschwitz camp, the Germans killed and burnt daily between 10,000 and 12,000 human beings daily, of whom 8,000 - 10,000 arrived by railway and were immediately killed, plus 2,000 - 3,000 camp inmates.
.../
Later, four crematoria were in operation on the grounds of Birkenau camp; every one of them had one gas chamber. Crematoria nos. 3 and 3 were of the same type, and each had 15 crematory ovens while those of crematoria nos. 3 and 5 were of another type -- not as big, and of inferior technical quality, each with 8 crematory ovens. All the crematoria incinerated 10,000 - 12,000 bodies per day.

The issue is that such document establishes also that 4 millions died at Auschwitz among other amazing things. Not very good for its credibility.

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Re: Holo. Hist. Proj.'s Andrew Mathis attempts damage contro

Postby SKcz » 5 years 9 months ago (Thu Jan 12, 2012 10:39 am)

Zulu - I am afraid that he will not adress any of my challenges.

Is good to notice, that every Crematoria had allegedly only one gas chamber as you showed in your quote, but despite the documents, Pressac state"

The two rooms and the corridor serving them became a “block” of three gas chambers, a space in which the internal divisions were no longer of any significance. (crematoria IV-V)

Pressac, 1989, p. 384
http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschw ... 0384.shtml


Also the number of possible cremations shrinked according to Pressac
http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschw ... e384.shtml

There is no doubt, that all the numbers shrinked as the time goes as the revisionists adress every problem, without the revisionists, they will not change them, this is only my opinion. The holocaust story is classic example of opportunism.

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Re: Holo. Hist. Proj.'s Andrew Mathis attempts damage contro

Postby PotPie » 5 years 4 months ago (Tue Jun 05, 2012 5:17 pm)

SKcz wrote:There is no doubt, that all the numbers shrinked as the time goes as the revisionists adress every problem, without the revisionists, they will not change them, this is only my opinion. The holocaust story is classic example of opportunism.


Yet the claimed 6,000,000 figure stands regardless. We went from 4 million alleged killed at Auschwitz-Birkenau to 1 million or less, yet the alleged 6 million stands firm. Apparently as they realize there wasn't a corpse in one place, that corpse magaically appears elsewhere. It's also an amazing coincidence that the number 6 has religious meaning to Jewry.

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Re: Holo. Hist. Proj.'s Andrew Mathis attempts damage contro

Postby Blogbuster » 5 years 4 months ago (Tue Jun 05, 2012 8:13 pm)

Did Mathis accept the challenge?


I bet he didn't/wouldn't/won't.
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Re: Holo. Hist. Proj.'s Andrew Mathis attempts damage contro

Postby Steven Willow » 5 years 4 months ago (Tue Jun 05, 2012 11:06 pm)

Sarasota Herald-Tribune - 60,000
David Baker - 20,000
Olga Lengyel - 24,000
Kitty Hart-Moxon - 26,000
Martin Gilbert - 50,000
Samuel Rajzman - 30,000/35,000 or 36,000/42,000 resp. 24,000 or 28,000 and also 20,000 and 25,000
Jankiel Wiernik - 30,000
Manfred Blank - 30,000 (Wiernik/Blank - convergence of evidence?)
Alexander Donat - 20,000
Michael Tregenza - 24,000


When I see these whacky, hilarious numbers, I wonder why some leader in the Hoaxter movement didn't have the brains to organize the little cogs in the Hoaxter machine and tell these bozos to get the numbers straight. One wonders how these inept, contradictory fools managed to beat, torture and bribe a statement about gas chambers out of every German functionary in proximity to the non-existant apparatus of mass murder. Its a mystery for the ages.

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Re: Andrew Mathis attempts damage control on gassing li

Postby Hannover » 2 years 8 months ago (Wed Jan 28, 2015 10:47 pm)

I'm curious if anyone has seen more from Andrew Mathis about this.

Je Suis Revisionniste.

- Hannover

The 'holocaust' storyline is one of the most easily debunked narratives ever contrived. That is why those who question it are arrested and persecuted. That is why violent, racist, & privileged Jewish supremacists demand censorship. What sort of Truth is it that crushes the freedom to seek the truth? Truth needs no protection from scrutiny.
The Internet is demolishing the false narrative promoted by arrogant Jewish supremacists. From the slaughter of the Palestinians to the lies of Auschwitz the world is recognizing the dangers of Jewish supremacism.
The tide is turning.
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.


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