Cyanide Chemistry at Auschwitz

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Postby astro3 » 1 decade 2 years ago (Fri Jul 27, 2007 5:24 am)

These helpful diagrams which Hannover has provided, are not based on any German design-plans, nor on any existing German apparatus. Instead, they are mock-ups based on alleged 'survivor' testimony.

The first design would contain the Zyklon pellets in a small column, and thereby tend to prevent the cyanide from diffusing out into the room. If gassing people is the purpose, this column is totally counter-productive. The second design holds the cyanide up near the ceiling. As the gas is lighter than air this would tend to protect persons in the room from exposure to it.

The exterminationists have fairly committed themselves to one or other of these designs; which offers us a fairly conclusive argument re the unworkability of the alleged gas chambers. Especially in winter-time, when the gas would diffuse more slowly, use of one or other of threse designs would tend to protect prisoners against mortal poisoning, within 'Hoss's half hour.'

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 2 years ago (Fri Jul 27, 2007 1:53 pm)

astro3 wrote:The exterminationists have fairly committed themselves to one or other of these designs; which offers us a fairly conclusive argument re the unworkability of the alleged gas chambers. Especially in winter-time, when the gas would diffuse more slowly, use of one or other of threse designs would tend to protect prisoners against mortal poisoning, within 'Hoss's half hour.'

Yes, but they are stuck with those various "eyewitnesses" which claim the alleged gas came out of showers, or that the Zyklon-B was said to have been thrown onto the floor. The descriptive phrase painted into a corner comes to mind.

Here we have just a few more examples of gassings tales which are additionally on the backs of those who profit from the ridiculous scam.
An "eyewitness" stated that the alleged poison gas had a delayed action, it allowed the victims to leave the gas chambers and walk to the mass graves by themselves

- Repts. of the Polish Underground, Archiv der Polnischen Vereinigten Arbeiterpartei, 202/III,v.7,pp.120f.,quoted in: P. Longerich, op. cit.(note 271), p. 438.

- Ada Bimko (now Hadassah Rosensaft of the Holocaust Memorial Museum, Washington DC): she testified to being shown by an SS officer the huge cylinders of gas in a room above the gas chamber at Auschwitz.

see: www.fpp.co.uk/BoD/origins/Rosensaft0203.html

Auschwitz inmate, Regina Bialek stated:
I was made to undress and taken by lorry to a gas chamber. There were seven gas chambers at Auschwitz. This particular one was underground and the lorry was able to run down the slope and straight into the chamber. Here we were tipped unceremoniously on the floor. The room was about 12 yards square and small lights on the wall dimly illuminated it. When the room was full a hissing sound was heard coming from the centre point on the floor and gas came into the room. After what seemed about ten minutes some of the victims began to bite their hands and foam at the mouth, and blood issued from their ears, eyes and mouth, and their faces went blue. I suffered from all these symptoms, together with a tight feeling at the throat. I was half conscious when my number was called out by Dr. Mengele and I was led from the chamber. I attribute my escape to the fact that the daughter of a friend of mine who was an Aryan and a doctor at Auschwitz had seen me being transported to the chamber and had told her mother, who immediately appealed to Dr. Mengele.

- from a postwar affidavit entered as prosecution evidence in the British military court trial at Lüneburg, Sept.-Nov. 1945, of former Auschwitz and Bergen-Belsen camp personnel.

and for comic relief:
The SS raced bicycles in the gas chambers of Birkenau.

- Nürnberger Nachrichten, Sept. 11, 1978, report about eyewitness testimony in the jury court trial in Aschaffenburg


Judeo-supremacists have lied and must continue to lie.

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Postby astro3 » 1 decade 2 years ago (Wed Aug 15, 2007 4:29 am)

Thanks, Hannover. We're now in a strong position to seek dialogue on a chemical basis with mainstream (exterminationist) historians: but we should insist that, whatever hypothesis is to be discussed, it has to be compatible with Hoss's confessions. With the sturdy 'columns' in place - we may grant this imagination, since it is to our advantage - and especially in winter-time, it is doubtbul whether many would have died in 'Hoss's half-hour.'
....................................................
Some comments from author Carlo Mattogno
May 1st, on where to sample from:
'The “chemical evidence” is well-known as being rather controversial. The solution I suggest is that we must compare the CN contents taken from Leichenkeller 1 AND Leichenkeller 2 of crematorium II: since only in Leichenkeller 1 was allegedly used HCN, it should show a higher CN content too ... Leichenkeller 1 is the “gas chamber” (morgue 1), Leichenkeller 1 the “undressing room”(morgue 2).'

May 11th, on where Leuchter sampled:
Asked about the oft-repeared claim that Leuchter had only sampled rebuilt, post-WW2 walls (1), Carlo Mattogno did not accept this: his (rather brief) reply alluded to 'a video taken (I suppose) by the cineaste J. Neumann shows Leuchter collecting the samples. I have seen this video at Pressac's house. I remember clearly Leuchter to work inside the Leichenkeller 1/morgue 1 of Crematorium II with gloves. I think you must obtain this video.' He added, 'It's interesting that Leuchter's sample no. 28 came from the washing room (Waschraum) and not from the "gas chamber"; even so it was positive (1.3 mg/kg)'
Leuchter also took samples from Krema-I - were these from pre-1945 wall, or later? Here Mattogno's comment was: 'you can see the modifications of the Crematorium I walls from the alleged plans. (K1941-1: = 1942; Luftschutzbunker: = 1944). Further particulars in my book Auschwitz: Crematorium I and the Alleged Homicidal Gassings, p. 22-24. http://vho.org/dl/ENG/aoai.pdf'

1. Wikipedia section on Leuchter, and Pressac said it earlier; 'Leuchter purposely avoided those parts of the gas chamber where he could have found cyanide:' JC Zimmerman, Holocaust Denial, 2000, Ch. 9, pp.188, 189.

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Postby astro3 » 1 decade 2 years ago (Sat Aug 18, 2007 9:31 am)

Legality of Chemical Argument

The Judgement against Germar Rudolf, made on 2nd May by Mannheim district Court ( www.adelaideinstitute.org/Dissenters1/R ... ay2007.htm ), had a fine paragraph summarising the chemical argument:
In his Expert Report, Rudolf develops the thesis inspired by a report written by the American Fred Leuchter (the “Leucher Report.”) The report maintains that if testimony of witnesses concerning mass murders using hydrogen cyanide (Cyclon B) were true, cyanide compounds would still have to be present in the ruins of the walls of the alleged gas chambers (morgues of the crematoria) at Auschwtiz Murder Camp. Such compounds cannot be detected, however, in contrast to the delousing chambers at Auschwitz in which Cyclon B is known to have been used, but in which it has not been alleged that murders took place. Therefore, Rudolf contended that mass murders could not have taken place as witnesses have claimed.

Rudolf was found guilty on the two counts of Inciting the Masses (Uh? what 'masses'?) and 'Defaming the Memory of the Dead.' These both seem rather strange crimes, but there is no hint that there was anything wrong or forbidden about his chemical arguments.

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Postby Mythos » 1 decade 1 year ago (Sat Aug 25, 2007 11:14 am)

Green vs. Rudolf debate

I have read The Rudolf Report, 2003; The Leuchter Reports Critical Edition, 2005; Green's "criticisms" at www.holocaust-history.org AND I have read Rudolf's answers to Green:
http://vho.org/GB/c/GR/ CharacterAssassins.htm , http://vho.org/GB/c/GR/Evasions.htmll and Auschwitz Lies, 2005; Green Sees Red http://vho.org/dl/ENG/al.pdf


Green BELIEVES eyewitness Michael Kula, who drew decades after the war a picture. Kula also claimed tha: "I saw then that they [the corpses] were greenish. The nurses told me that the corpses were cracked, and the skin came off." Does Green BELIEVE this also?

Green evades the issue of the wall materials and the ideal conditions in the alleged gas chambers http://www.vho.org/GB/Books/trr/6.html#6.7.


My conclusion

In short: PhD chemist Rudolf's conclusions are based on scientific facts, while PhD chemist Green's conclusions are based on beliefs and evasions.

The Rudolf Report's conclusions are based on the fact that there is no evidence about any holes in the roof and no evidence whatsoever about any so-called "wire-mesh devices", by which to throw the gas in and remove it quickly. So the gas could't even have been thrown into the rooms of Crematorium 2 and 3. (No Holes, No Holocaust.)

Rudolf conducted theoretical chemical studies also, which he based on hypothetical scenarios assuming there had been holes in the roofs.
1) He assumed that the gas would have to have been thown from hypothetical holes (in reality non-existent holes), on to victims down to the floor where (under the dead bodies) it would have kept evaporating about 3-4 hours. In this scenario there would have definetely formed the prussian blue stains to the walls, according to Rudolf.
2) He also made theoretical calculations IF the so-called wire mesh devices had been in the morgues (alleged 'gas chambers') allowing the gas to be removed after the victims (1000-3000) had been killed in 5-15 minutes. In this scenario there wouldn't necessarily have formed the prussian blue stains.

Based on the 1) scenario, Rudolf showed in his expert report that the conditions in the morgues (alleged 'gas chambers') of Crematorium 2 and 3 were ideal for prussian blue stains to form from the use of Zyklon B:
"The velocity of formation of the pigment can be influenced by various factors, which will be considered:
Water content of the reaction medium;
Reactivity of the iron;
Temperature;
Acid content."
http://www.germarrudolf.com/work/trr/6.html#6.5.
Alleged gas chambers were naturally humid, cool, alkaline and if the whose was used to wash the floors, they would have been even more likely to form prussian blue stains. Under these same conditions in the Bavarian Church in 1977, prussian blue stains formed all over the walls of that church just after one fumigation with Zyklon B.
http://www.germarrudolf.com/work/trr/1.html#1.3.
http://www.vho.org/GB/Books/dth/fndwood.html
So it is therefore, in my opinion, proven fact that prussian blue stains do always form under these same conditions. And remember, these were the same conditions in the alleged homicidal gas chambers.

In addition according to chemist dr. James Roth in 1988 at the second Zündel trial: "If samples 9 and 29 had been exposed continually everyday for two years to 300 parts per million of hydrogen cyanide, Roth testified that he would expect to see the formation of the iron cyanide compounds; the so called "Prussian blue" material, in detectable amounts. The reaction of the two substances was an accumulative reaction; the reaction continued with each exposure. One way for this reaction not to occur would be a lack of water. These reactions, in many cases, required water or vapour in order to occur. However, in rooms of normal temperatures and normal humidity, there would be plenty of moisture present for this type of reaction to take place. (33-9293, 9294)"
http://www.ihr.org/books/kulaszka/34roth.html
This was a sworn testimony under oath. It doesnt matter what Roth said at Errol Morris' film Mr. Death 10 years later. The oath did not require him to tell the truth anymore. His testimony under oath is valid.

According to holocaust experts in these morgues there were about 400 repeated gassings. About 400,000 people were allegedly killed in Crematorium 2 'gas chamber' (Auschwitz touristguide said in 2007 August that over 500,000 people were gassed in Crema 2). The gassings were not regular, and in 1944 when the Hungarian Jews were being killed quickly so there would have been many repeated gassings a day, all the time. Wouldn't there have to have been almost constant exposure to Zyklon B during 1944 when the Hungarian Jews were being killed? Even if assuming the existence of the (non-existent) wire mesh devices, wouldnt it still be quite likely that if there were many repeated gassings a day, there would have formed the prussian blue stains? Lets keep in mind: ONLY ONE GASSING in the Bavarian Churh formed the blue stains...

My conclusion is that Green has not refuted anything, and that Rudolf is correct in his expert report.

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Postby Friedrich Paul Berg » 1 decade 1 year ago (Fri Nov 23, 2007 12:31 pm)

The following image, but especially the caption, shows that for fatal cyanide poisonings there is also an intense reddish discoloration of the corpse--similar to what occurs with CO fatal poisonings. Only Tauber, of all the self-styled eyewitnesses at Auschwitz, ever claimed there was such a reddish discoloration. Tauber also claimed, however, that some of the corpses that he saw had "greenish" discoloration in places which appears only with decomposition many hours after death.

Image

When I scanned the actual image from the book by G. Austin Gresham some of the red intensity was lost, unfortunately. Altering colors with Photoshop is something I am reluctant to do.

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Postby Sailor » 1 decade 1 year ago (Sun Dec 23, 2007 9:58 pm)

Perry Broad claimed that the bodies turned blue after being gassed with HCN, according to the so called Broad Report, as included in the Auschwitz Process DVD.

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The Holocaust hoaxsters exaggerate and embellish a 60+ year old event in order to abuse the Palestinians and rob them of their land, while claiming a free pass for their barbaric conduct on account of the "holocaust".

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Postby Moderator » 1 decade 1 year ago (Thu Apr 03, 2008 1:42 pm)

Dave.g,
Your post mentioning the 1994 Polish effort has been covered already in this thread, see:
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t= ... c&start=15
Since your post simply mentioned the effort and was without comment, it was deleted. If you care to comment, disagree, whatever, please do so.

Thanks & welcome.
Only lies need to be shielded from debate, truth welcomes it.

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Postby astro3 » 1 decade 1 year ago (Sun Apr 06, 2008 12:00 pm)

THE CRUCIAL EXPERIMENT – PERFORMED!

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=KQ36oGB3w ... re=related

At last, the story told at Nuremberg by Rudolf Hess has been tested experimentally. In an experiment of wonderfully simple design, three young men actually went into a sealed bunker for one hour, where a canister of Zyklon-B has been poured out onto a ledge. Then, they walked out. That’s all!

They were checked medically before entering and after leaving, and a canister of oxygen was available for them in case anything went wrong. They tapped on the locked metal door every five minutes to indicate they were OK. They were at Auschwitz which added to the authenticity of the experiment. One kilo of 'Cyanocil', the modern name for the Zyklon-B was used, and the ambient temperature was 16 degrees centigrade.

One would like to congratulate the three brave men, but the YouTube video left them as anonymous, having their faces covered as they emerged. No names, no addresses. This experiment is spearheading the destruction of the greatest hoax ever perpetrated on the human race, and we’d like to know who these heroes are!

The video then interviewed a German expert, a ‘Desinfektor’ who gave this data:
• At this ambient temperature it would take 16-18 hours for mortal cyanide levels to be established.
• At an ambient room temperature of 26 degrees centigrade or above, it would take about 6 hours to kill. (Remember, Hoss’s account had no warming of the chambers)
• When death occurs in minutes from this powder, as in US gas execution chambers, that is because a strong acid has been used to stimulate the gas emission.

One would like to see this experiment repeated with use of a cyanide gas measuring device, which would cost several hundred pounds. This YouTube video will surely have an immediate impact and reach a wider audience than would a chemistry report.

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Postby o2bwise » 1 decade 1 year ago (Mon Apr 07, 2008 9:05 am)

Well, for my first post, I'll reply to this because it is relevant to discussions I had in a forum where I shared my conviction that I am a holocaust denier. They all have essentially cast me into the remotest bowels of hell.

Anyway, one person wrote on this video:
"That is soo stupid. The cyanide/Zyklon-B was never activated! If you just
leave it sitting around you'll only get a very small amount of cyanide gas
through hydrolysis with atmospheric moisture. But drop it into acid (which the
Nazis did) ..."

I am new to this and I realize it is hard to prove a negative, BUT, is it known that Germany did not activate the Zyklon B with acid. Because if it is not known, the scenarios of what is alleged and the experiment are as different as night and day.

Mark this, I am placing myself in the moccasins of your average person. In other words, such a person would readily believe the Zyklon B was activated and thus that the YouTube video is useless.


o2

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Postby Germania » 1 decade 1 year ago (Mon Apr 07, 2008 12:55 pm)

astro3 wrote:THE CRUCIAL EXPERIMENT – PERFORMED!

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=KQ36oGB3w ... re=related


"This video is not available in your country."

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Postby Wahrheit » 1 decade 1 year ago (Mon Apr 07, 2008 5:20 pm)

astro3 wrote:At last, the story told at Nuremberg by Rudolf Hess has been tested experimentally. In an experiment of wonderfully simple design, three young men actually went into a sealed bunker for one hour, where a canister of Zyklon-B has been poured out onto a ledge. Then, they walked out. That’s all!


Astro3, surely you do not believe that these men actually were locked in a room with 1 kg of real Hydrogen Cyanide at 15 deg Celsius for an hour and lived to tell the tale. Your excellent research throughout this thread no doubt provided you with knowledge on how deadly this gas is. As the video crew and speaker do not give the dimensions of their experimental gas chamber, only that it is "quite small", I can not give you an exact lethality level that real gas would have given off.

Astro3 wrote
The video then interviewed a German expert, a ‘Desinfektor’ who gave this data:
• At this ambient temperature it would take 16-18 hours for mortal cyanide levels to be established.


These "Desinfektor" statements are worth less than a pile of dung. At 15 deg. Celsius, the HCN would completely evaporate into the air within two and a half hours. This graph was produced in 1942 by DEGESCH employee Richard Irmscher, who was charged with studying various temperature and humidity effects on Zyklon-B (ercco).

http://www.vho.org/GB/Books/dth/Image273.gif

As Rudolf writes in his report:

These data were confirmed by a study conducted by a Soviet commission immediately after the war: Gosudarstvjennyj Archiv Rossiskoj Federatsii, Moscow, RF, 7021-107-9, pp. 229-243. Two cans of Zyklon B were opened and their content was exposed for two hours to 23-28�C. After this 94% respectively 90% of the original HCN content was evaporated.
http://www.vho.org/GB/Books/dth/fndgcger.html


As for HCN needing to be released from an acid drip, utter nonsense. At moderate-warm temperatures, it readily evaporates into the air. Warmer the temperature, quicker the outgassing. The acid drip method (used by US gas chambers) unleashes a larger and more immediate concentration of the cyanide.

Furthermore, the Germans never needed to use such an acid drip when employing Zyklon-B as a disinfection agent in the delousing chambers across Europe, but simply needed to heat it.

This video is nothing but a hoax, a Trojan horse that could easily blow up in the few revisionists' who sponsored it (assuming they were revisionists) faces.

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 1 year ago (Mon Apr 07, 2008 5:58 pm)

This video is nothing but a hoax, a Trojan horse that could easily blow up in the few revisionists' who sponsored it (assuming they were revisionists) faces.

The video is useless, especially from a confirmation aspect; but it does raise the issue that judeo-supremacists cannot prove their absurd assertions about the alleged 'gas chambers' ... much as the judeo-supremacists cannot show us the alleged mass graves that they claim exist.

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Postby Reinhard » 1 decade 1 year ago (Mon Apr 07, 2008 6:59 pm)

We've discussed that here:

http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=2310&postdays=0&postorder=asc

And Vallon [posting of Sun Aug 28, 2005 8:48 am] had asked Germar Rudolf to give his opinion about that video:

Vallon wrote:I asked Germar Rudolf about the video. He answered:

Germar Rudolf wrote:Yes, I do know the video. I doubt it has any validity. First of all because there is no way we can be certain that the parameters were what is claimed. No one can be taken to taks for it, as everything is anonymous. Were they really that long in that room? Was there any HCN in the material they spread out? Did the material have the same properties as the one used back in the 1940s? The video provides no information to verify any of this.

Fact is that the Zyklon B used in the 1940 would have released enough poison gas to kill these people in the time claimed. Hence it is close to certain that the material used in that experiment -- provided the time shown is acurate -- has little or nothing to do with what would have happened with authentic material as used in the 1940s. That is my opinion. Of course, I could be wrong, but I consider it unlikely.

And yes, you can quote me on that.

Germar Rudolf


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Postby astro3 » 1 decade 1 year ago (Sat Apr 12, 2008 6:03 am)

Thanks for this criticism, and I'd better withdraw my endorsement of this video, especially in the light of Germar Rudolf's comments. Science is about measurement, and unless there is at least one meter in the chamber measuring the level of hydrogen cyanide as it develops over the hour, we are not liable to believe it. It's a suggestive video, and unless someone is prepared to give their name as witnessing the event, the scepticism as here expressed will appear to be warranted.

To anwer the query made above by 'o2bwise', it would make no sense to add acid to Zyklon-B to accelerate release. Zyklon-B is HCN, in liquid form and absorbed onto a substrate, and only heat accelerates its release, via evaporation. Nobody ever suggested that acid was added to it in WW2, to make it 'work.'

Let's hope that someone can make a follow-up video with a bit more credibility.


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