Roberto Muehlenkamp debunked on 3.5kg of coke cremations

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Hannover
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Roberto Muehlenkamp debunked on 3.5kg of coke cremations

Postby Hannover » 1 decade 5 years ago (Fri Jul 11, 2003 12:29 am)

This is a nice example of the tactics that the panic stricken will resort to.

See True Believer Roberto Muehlenkamp, aka: Cortagravatas, shown the door with his fraudulent assertion about a German patent that allegedly could cremate a corpse with 3.5 kg of coke, a scientific impossibilty.

The 3.5 kg per corpse nonsense is critical to the fraud. It's the only way they can rationalize the coke shipments vs. their unsubstantiated assertions of the number of Jews allegedly murdered and then cremated. The whole thing doesn't hold up; not by a long shot. And they know it.

Have a look, very informative.

Follow this mercifully short thread from the former CODOH bbs:
http://forum.codoh.com/codoh/493.html

- Hannover


If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Postby TMoran » 1 decade 5 years ago (Fri Jul 11, 2003 11:10 pm)

The initial claim that 3.5 kilograms (7.7 pounds) of coal was sufficient to cremate one Holocaust body was proposed by VanPelt at the Irving trial. That makes it all 'official'. Thus it makes the 3.5 kilos of coke an official Holocaust 'fact'.

The real facts are, one kilo of coke can deliver 112,000 BTUs of heat whereas it takes modern day cremation ovens 1,000,000 BTUs of heat to cremate a body. Should we think that modern day cremation facilities would be relying on the most fuel efficient methods there are?

3.5 kilos of coke, no Holocaust.

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 5 years ago (Sun Jul 20, 2003 2:08 pm)

It would seem that 'holocau$t' Industry spokesman, Robert Jan Van Pelt ...who pushes this anti-science nonsense, has lost his nerve to publicly speak about it. No wonder.

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 1 year ago (Tue Oct 03, 2006 12:37 am)

This is yet another of Roberto Muehlenkamp's bizarre attempts to make the 'holocaust' lies trump science, what incredible magic it is.

It's a religion with parting seas and burning bushes, it's followers can rightly be called True Believers.

Revisionists are just the messengers, the ridiculous and impossible nature of the 'holocaust' claims is the message.

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If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Postby ClaudiaRothenbach » 1 decade 1 year ago (Wed Oct 04, 2006 2:22 pm)

Roberto Mühlenkamp answered the assertions by Cat Scan with attempts like these:

1. The crematoria at Auschwitz and Birkenau were not typical cremation ovens, but heavy-duty industrial ovens designed to run continuously, using the heat energy produced by the burning of previous bodies to keep the oven hot for the next bodies. After they were fired with coke to their proper operating temperature, they required little or no extra fuel to operate. A considerable but well-documented technical achievement. The cremation unit that one muffle was supposed to handle in a given time was a weight unit, which means that one or several persons adding up to that weight unit could be put into each muffle simultaneously without increasing the cremation time. Unlike in crematoria ovens used for civilian purposes, there was no need to wait for one body to have cremated completely. The practice actually was to put the next body or bodies in the muffle before the cremation process of the previous was complete.


Here are some comments:

RM: heavy-duty industrial ovens
No, they were not. Roberto sucks this out of his fingers. As Prüfer said: the dead bodies could be cremated one by one - perhaps a little bit overlapping.

RM: designed to run continuously
No, they were not. As Mattogno proved they had to be cooled down after some hours and then cleaned to prevent damage. As Nieskly writes they were used only some hours per day.

RM: using the heat energy produced by the burning of previous bodies
No, as Cat Scan described the head did not result from the burning of bodies but from the burning of carbon. The dead bodies did not even have contact to the flames.

RM: After they were fired with coke to their proper operating temperature, they required little or no extra fuel to operate.
No, this is bullshit. Roberto did not even understand the working principle of the ovens.
In these ovens the dead bodies were burned by the hot gas that was produced through burning coal. If you stop the fire there is no gas stream any more.
The old bakery ovens work with the principle Roberto describes. The ovens are heated by burning coal, they save the heat, the coal is taken out and the bread put in. But this is a different story.

RM: A considerable but well-documented technical achievement.
No, just crap.

RM: The cremation unit that one muffle was supposed to handle in a given time was a weight unit, which means that one or several persons adding up to that weight unit could be put into each muffle simultaneously without increasing the cremation time.
This is crap as well.
As described the dead bodies were cremated by streaming gas. So the most relevant point is the space to keep the gas streaming. If too many dead bodies disturb the stream the cremation time is reduced.

RM: The practice actually was to put the next body or bodies in the muffle before the cremation process of the previous was complete.
Here again - Roberto suck out of his finger.
The truth is that the many lie-witnesses tell us they put 3 to 8 bodies into a muffle at one time. Why does Roberto know that this means that they worked only overlapping?
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Postby Bergmann » 1 decade 1 year ago (Wed Oct 04, 2006 6:34 pm)

Next time around the SS would be better off to go to Mühlenkamp for the design and construction of crematoria in the various concentration camps, rather than have the job done by Topf & Söhne and engineer Kurt Prüfer.
:D

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 1 year ago (Wed Oct 04, 2006 8:32 pm)

Tin Foil Hat Roberto Muehlenkamp also makes a claim about an alleged patent (covered in http://forum.codoh.com/codoh/493.html ) which he claims proves the capability of the absurd acrobatic feats of the 1940s Auschwitz-Birkenau crematoriums.

facts:

- the patent was for an incinerator not a oven, big difference, you build a fire, let it develop over a period of time (in this case, two days), and then start throwing material in it -- that is, right on the fire to burn

- the crematory ovens at Auschwitz were nothing like this incinerator

- this incinerator was never built

- the patent for an incinerator, which was never built, was years after the war

- incinerators still require external fuel for burning

- a patent is not a certification that what it describes will work, the incinerator in question was never built and the claims by Muehlenkamp cannot be shown to actually work, he can show no verifiable example of this incinerator or any example of any cremation process that TODAY (2006) achieves what he ludicrously claims

- the dimensions of the Auschwitz crematory ovens would not allow for the multiple cremations as claimed

Revisionists are just the messengers, the absurd and impossible 'holocaust' tales promoted by nutjobs like Roberto Muehlenkamp is the message

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Postby Bergmann » 1 decade 1 year ago (Thu Oct 05, 2006 4:49 am)

Mühlenkamp refers in the old CODOH thread to a statement made by van Pelt in an expert report during the Irving trial.

It always puzzled me why van Pelt depended on a letter of questionable quality about the capabilties of the crematoria in Auschwitz. Van Pelt could have easily requested the opinion of an expert crematorium designer to solve the problem of the exaggerated capabity of 1440 bodies per 24 hours and the resulting calculated coke consumption of 3.5 kg per body.

Or he could have read the SMERSH interrogation of engineer Kurt Prüfer, who designed and constructed the ovens for the crematoria:

SMERSH: Welche Anzahl von Leichen konnte in Auschwitz pro Stunde in einem Krematorium verbrannt werden?
Prüfer: In einem Krematorium, das fünf Öfen oder fünfzehn Öffnungen (Muffeln) aufwies, verbrannte man in einer Stunde fünfzehn Leichen.

My translation:
SMERSH: How many corpses could be burned in a crematorium in Auschwitz per hour?
Prüfer: Fifteen corpses could be burned per hour in a crematorium with five ovens or fifteen muffles. [i.e. 300 bodies per 20 hours]

Source:
http://www.vho.org/VffG/2002/4/Graf398-421.html

But then van Pelt was apparently only interested in having Irving convicted of being a Holocaust denier, rather than the historical truth of the event.

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Postby ClaudiaRothenbach » 1 decade 1 year ago (Thu Oct 05, 2006 7:09 am)

Bergmann wrote:But then van Pelt was apparently only interested in having Irving convicted of being a Holocaust denier, rather than the historical truth of the event.


This is absolutely true. Van Pelt is a shyster and a liar. One more proof for that is the following paragraph from his report 1999.

Today, these four small holes that connected the wire-mesh columns and the chimneys cannot be observed in the ruined remains of the concrete slab. Yet does this mean they were never there? We know that after the cessation of the gassings in the Fall of 1944 all the gassing equipment was removed, which implies both the wire-mesh columns and the chimneys. What would have remained would have been the four narrow holes in the slab. While there is not certainty in this particular matter, it would have been logical to attach at the location where the columns had been some formwork at the bottom of the gas chamber ceiling, and pour some concrete in the holes, and thus restore the slab.


He could have written that the holes were located under debris or the slab moved during the explosion or similar crap.

But he decided to write the biggest nonsense he could have written.

Every construction worker knows that it is impossible to close holes in concrete slabs inobservable.
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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 1 year ago (Tue Oct 17, 2006 12:57 pm)

Van Pelt could have easily requested the opinion of an expert crematorium designer to solve the problem of the exaggerated capabity of 1440 bodies per 24 hours and the resulting calculated coke consumption of 3.5 kg per body.

Or he could have read the SMERSH interrogation of engineer Kurt Prüfer, who designed and constructed the ovens for the crematoria ..

Yes, and so could have Roberto Muehlenkamp, but we must remember, truth is not the issue here. Never has been.

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 1 year ago (Fri Dec 15, 2006 12:26 am)

This thread ties in nicely with this one:

'Interrogated by SMERSCH / Topf engineers, Kurt Prufer, etc.'
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=135

Desperate 'holocaust' liars like Roberto Muehlenkamp haven't a chance against science, haven't a chance against facts.

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Re: Roberto Muehlenkamp debunked on 3.5kg of coke cremations

Postby Hannover » 7 years 11 months ago (Fri Sep 10, 2010 1:23 pm)

CODOH Revisionist Forum registrant 'Hans' supports the 3.5 kg claim, any comments from him or others?

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Re: Roberto Muehlenkamp debunked on 3.5kg of coke cremations

Postby Blogbuster » 7 years 10 months ago (Sun Sep 26, 2010 8:36 am)

On the topic of Roberto Muehlenkamp being debunked, I thought I would post an interesting story:

Recently on his blog Muehlenkamp attacked Frederick Toben and in his tedious dissertation he posted a number of links to the ARC http://www.deathcamps.org website as proof of his argument.

*It's important to keep in mind that ARC is the site Muehlenkamp is alleged to have vandalized.

It's typical of Muehlenkamp to use the websites of others in his senseless debates however in this case the ARC team posted the following disclaimer at the top of the page he linked to:

Note to our viewers

Links to our website from the controversial and grossly inaccurate postings of Roberto Muehlenkamp, Sergey Romanov and Dr. Nick Terry are not welcome.

Which brings me back to my point about debunking Muehlenkamp, if even the pro-Holocaust websites call his research and posts grossly inaccurate, then who in the world would ever take this guy seriously on any subject?

There is an ongoing dicussion on the very topic http://hateblogwatch.yuku.com/topic/105/t/Roberto-Muehlenkamp-and-Nick-Terry-humiliated-by-ARC-.html
Blog Buster!

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Re: Roberto Muehlenkamp debunked on 3.5kg of coke cremations

Postby The Warden » 7 years 10 months ago (Thu Sep 30, 2010 10:29 am)

Hannover wrote:This is a nice example of the tactics that the panic stricken will resort to.

See True Believer Roberto Muehlenkamp, aka: Cortagravatas, shown the door with his fraudulent assertion about a German patent that allegedly could cremate a corpse with 3.5 kg of coke, a scientific impossibilty.

The 3.5 kg per corpse nonsense is critical to the fraud. It's the only way they can rationalize the coke shipments vs. their unsubstantiated assertions of the number of Jews allegedly murdered and then cremated. The whole thing doesn't hold up; not by a long shot. And they know it.

Have a look, very informative.

Follow this mercifully short thread from the former CODOH bbs:
codoh/493.html

- Hannover


Cat Scan's post is masterfully done. Was there ever a response to it by Muehlenkamp? Perhaps in another venue? I know you guys had multiple places of debate.
Why the Holocaust Industry exists:
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Re: Roberto Muehlenkamp debunked on 3.5kg of coke cremations

Postby Hans » 7 years 10 months ago (Thu Sep 30, 2010 3:42 pm)

In any case, Cat Scan's conclusion

1) Bodies cannot be cremated in 15 minutes or even 30 minutes, but less than one hour times are conceivable for incomplete multiple cremations,


can be easily refuted nowadays. Carlo Mattogno himself has found and published in his works that an oven in the crematorium in Theresienstadt was able to cremate one body in 31 min in average. I recall that in the past Revisionists have claimed it would take hours or 1:30 hours or 1 hour at best. Now we are down to 30 min. That's a major progress.


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