Stroop Report forger misidentified large gun

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Carto's Cutlass Supreme
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Stroop Report forger misidentified large gun

Postby Carto's Cutlass Supreme » 1 decade 3 years ago (Tue Sep 11, 2007 12:54 am)

Found this at:
http://www.onethirdoftheholocaust.com/s ... eport.html
A) The Forger Got The Gun Wrong. It's unlikely a German General would misidentify a large gun, but quite likely that a forger would. The Stroop Report lists a howitzer in the short list of weapons, but it doesn't match what's seen in a photo that is part of the report. In the list of weapons we read:

1 10-cm-Howitzer

But one of the copies of the Stroop Report has a photo of this weapon, and it's clearly not a 10 cm. howitzer.

What is a "howitzer"?
A howitzer or "haubitze" in German, is a type of gun that lobs an 8-20 pound bomb (projectile) at the enemy. Usually landing 3-5 miles away. Howitzers are different from large guns because large guns shoot straight. In contrast the trajectory of a howitzer projectile would be similar to someone serving in a volleyball game. In other words, slightly lobbed. You can see how it's not the best choice for a weapon for inner-city fighting, but weapons choice is a minor mistake of the forger, the larger mistake is the following: One of the copies of the Stroop Report has a photo of the supposed howitzer. It's not a great photo, but clear enough to see it's not a 10 cm howitzer. It's a 75 mm Russian field gun, circa 1902. This report is suppsedly written by a general who would have reviewed ammunition orders for the weapon; and who was a WWI veteran. Stroop would have had 25 years of experience with howitzers!

The size of the gun is enough to tell it's not a 100 mm howitzer, but the dead give-away is the protective shield. The shield on this model is unique in the howitzer world. In the photos below notice the angled upper portion of the rectangular shield. It only appears on the 75mm wz. 02-26 Polish divisional field gun:


Here's the gun photo in the Stroop Report:
http://www.holocaustresearchproject.org ... 0fire.html

And one can see the 10 cm howitzer mentioned in the Stroop Report, by doing a keyword search on "howitzer."
http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/imt/d ... 061-ps.htm

and here are links to the make of the real gun:

http://www.landships.freeservers.com/pu ... m_info.htm
http://www.thetankmaster.com/ENGLISH/AFV/76mm1902.asp
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/76_mm_divisional_gun_M1902
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Categ ... _gun_M1902

The site says
Special thanks to an anonymous Australian who pointed out the howitzer issue, and who also pointed out that the forger got the caliber of the anti-aircraft gun wrong, which is mentioned later in this essay.


So apparently that isn't the only mistake. There's an ammo mistake
7) A weapons caliber that doesn't exist.
An Australian man who has studied WWII weapons for many years, brought to my attention that the type of anti-aircraft gun mentioned in the report is a "2.28-cm A.A. Gun." The problem is that caliber doesn't exist. "2.28 cm" was not a caliber used by any military. But that's not the only problem with this gun. We read the full line:

3 2.28-cm A.A. Guns 2/24

They have 3 guns and "2/24" means 2 officers and 24 enlisted men. It would thus appear that 8 enlisted men operate each gun. The problem is that in the German army, there was a 4-man crew for anti-aircraft guns. Not 8. How did the forger make this mistake? She likely had access to some fairly poor reference material or photos and didn't quite understand what she was looking at. For instance 2.28 meter is the chassis width for a German anti-tank gun, the Wespe and Marder II. Would a general writing this with everything fresh in his mind make this mistake? No. It's about as likely as a rural American making a mistake for "a 22 rifle" and calling it a "21.28 rifle." It's hard to believe that it's a clerical error when you consider it represented a significant part of his arsenal, and that he would have been signing off for nearly a month on ammunition consumption and requisition forms for it. See list of weapons:

http://www.holocaust-history.org/works/ ... trp022.htm

http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/imt/d ... 061-ps.htm

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 2 years ago (Wed Aug 27, 2008 5:41 pm)

There certainly is a lot at http://www.onethirdoftheholocaust.info/ ... eport.html

Highly recommended.
ex:
9) A Picture of acute scoliosis
It looks more like a medical photo. Nazi philosophy had a racial component to be sure, but it didn't involve running to the hospital of conquered cities and taking photos of people with rare medical problems in order to point out their inferior characteristics. The intended supposed recipients of the Stroop Report, Generals Himmler and Krüger, would have known that scoliosis exists in Germany also. It would seem the forger is trying to vilify Stroop based on a strawman portrayal of Nazi racial ideology. Hence the caption: "dregs of humanity."

Image

You'll also love the section on Rachel Auerbach, you know the woman that said the Germans used Jewish blood for fuel:
Blood, too, was found to be first-class combustion material.
- R. Auerbach, THE DEATH CAMP TREBLINKA: A DOCUMENTARY, edited by Alexander Donat


- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Postby Carto's Cutlass Supreme » 1 decade 2 years ago (Thu Aug 28, 2008 12:29 am)

Yeah, the Stroop Report has a photo, ostensibly taken by a German soldier of a Jewish man falling mid air from an apartment window. And you got to ask yourself what the chances of snapping that photo are. Plus the man mid air has his face obscured.

The howitzer, or haubitze, is a weapon made for shooting a couple miles. Yet they're rolling it down a Warsaw street in plain view of any possible snipers. That article points out things like that.

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Postby kk » 1 decade 2 years ago (Thu Aug 28, 2008 12:57 pm)

A German general calling a field gun a howitzer?
Highly unlikely.
However:
What is a "howitzer"?
A howitzer or "haubitze" in German, is a type of gun that lobs an 8-20 pound bomb (projectile) at the enemy. Usually landing 3-5 miles away. Howitzers are different from large guns because large guns shoot straight.


Howitzers are guns that can be used for both normal and high angle "plunging" fire.
They are not necessarily small. The 42cm 'Big Bertha' was a howitzer and its projectiles weighted almost a ton.
Perhaps the author mistakenly thought howitzers are mortars.

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Postby Carto's Cutlass Supreme » 1 decade 2 years ago (Mon Sep 08, 2008 12:00 pm)

Mortars are what are used for high angle plunging, not howitzers. Howitzers usually point 45 degrees. The author was probably just generally describing what howitzers generally are.

There's no major armor around a howitzer because usually you are in the middle of nowhere, like in a field, shooting miles away.

In the Stroop Report photos, we see photos of German soldiers walking on both sides of a field gun, which is ridiculous. They would be easy targets for snipers from the buildings they are surrounded by. If they needed to shoot a large caliber projectile in urban combat they would have used a tank or armored vehicle, or a panzerfaust shot from a concealed position. They wouldn't have wheeled a field gun down the middle of the street! While at the same time soldiers take pictures, like the one where the man is caught mid-air jumping out of a building.

Those images are either staged, or taken at a time other than the Warsaw ghetto uprising.

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Postby MrNobody » 1 decade 2 years ago (Tue Sep 09, 2008 11:55 am)

kk wrote:
Howitzers are guns that can be used for both normal and high angle "plunging" fire.

The Author is merely trying to differentiate between a Howitzer (Haubitze) & a Cannon (Kannone) which has a much "flatter" trajectory & therefore greatly increased range & accuracy.

The 75mm wz. 02-26 Polish divisional field gun mentioned in this article can be grouped into the Cannon type (Kannone) as it has a flatter trajectory & greater range than most Infantry Guns in use at the time such as the The 7.5 cm leichtes Infanteriegeschütz 18 (7.5 cm le.IG 18 - ) which would have been a more practical weapon in this instance.
Wir brauchen eine Bewegung, die Deutschland endlich aus der Kontrolle der Kräfte von Versailles und Jalta befreit, die uns schon ein ganzes Jahrhundert lang von einer Kastastrophe in die andere stürzt.

Helga Zepp-LaRouche.

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Postby MrNobody » 1 decade 2 years ago (Tue Sep 09, 2008 12:23 pm)

Perhaps the main point is the fact that the "Stroop Report" forgery Author (the alleged Stroop) completely misidentified the caliber of the gun & therefore the Gun itself, since the fraud stated the gun to be of 100mm or 10cm caliber, the only gun possessed by the Germans in 100mm or 10cm was the 10 cm Kanone 17 another gun of similar type & also oft referred to as a 100mm Kannone was the 10.5 cm schwere Kanone K18 both guns of which have rangers in excess of 16,000 meters (the K18 is 20,000 meters or 20 Km)
As can be plainly seen the photo in the alleged "Stroop Report" is not a German made K17 or K18 & as already stated is a 75mm wz. 02-26 Polish divisional field gun.
Wir brauchen eine Bewegung, die Deutschland endlich aus der Kontrolle der Kräfte von Versailles und Jalta befreit, die uns schon ein ganzes Jahrhundert lang von einer Kastastrophe in die andere stürzt.



Helga Zepp-LaRouche.

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Re: Stroop Report forger misidentified large gun

Postby Hektor » 7 years 1 week ago (Sun Jan 05, 2014 10:20 am)

Carto's Cutlass Supreme wrote:Found this at:
http://www.onethirdoftheholocaust.com/s ... eport.html
....

It seems the site is dormant, but texts can still be gotten via cache searches. Did he move the site?

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Re: Stroop Report forger misidentified large gun

Postby hermod » 7 years 1 week ago (Sun Jan 05, 2014 12:46 pm)

"But, however the world pretends to divide itself, there are ony two divisions in the world to-day - human beings and Germans. – Rudyard Kipling, The Morning Post (London), June 22, 1915


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