The Sobibor transit camp

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Greg Gerdes
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The Sobibor transit camp

Postby Greg Gerdes » 1 decade 1 year ago (Tue May 13, 2008 1:38 pm)

"If Belzec / Sobibor / Treblinka were transit camps, then where did the deportees end up?"

The following is from - Carlo Mattogno, Jürgen Graf Treblinka Extermination Camp or Transit Camp? - http://vho.org/GB/Books/t/

From Part 2, Chapter VIII: Indirect Transports of Jews to the Eastern Territories, part 6:

..."The deportations of Jews to the east therefore took place in two stages: the Jews were first temporarily settled or lodged in transit camps and then deported farther east. In view of the paucity of existing documentation, we cannot determine with certainty what the final destination of this deportation was, but there exist various pieces of evidence, which make it possible for us to draw plausible conclusions...

it is known that on July 5, 1943, Himmler personally gave the following order:

"The transit camp Sobibór is to be converted into a concentration camp. In the concentration camp a plant for the repair of captured munitions is to be established."

This instruction, directed to officials who could not have been unclear about the actual character of the Sobibór camp, was a secret matter of the Reich: for what reason should Himmler have used the expression "Durchgangslager" (transit camp)? In order to pull the wool over the eyes of his underlings - who knew all about it for a long time?

In that period, deportations of Dutch Jews to Sobibór took place: on July 2, a transport with 2,397 persons arrived, on July 9 another with 2,417. That Sobibór had the function of a transit camp also emerges from the statements of several former Dutch-Jewish deportees:

Cato Polak, deported on March 10, 1943, remained in Sobibór one or two hours and was then transferred to Lublin with 30 women and 12 men. They returned home to Holland by way of Trawniki - Auschwitz - Bergen-Belsen - Theresienstadt.

Bertha Jansen-Ensel and Judith Eliazar, who had arrived in Sobibór on March 10, 1943, were likewise transferred to Lublin. Both returned to their homeland via Auschwitz. Although they had alluded to gas chambers and cremations, they declared:

"Sobibor was no camp, rather a transit camp."

Jules Schelvis, deported to Sobibór on June 1, 1943, was transferred to Trawniki three hours after his arrival there and returned to Holland via Auschwitz.

Mirjam Penha-Blitz gave a statement that was summarized as follows:

"Deported by train from Westerbork on March 10, 1943. Arrival in Sobibor about March 13, 1943 (via Birkenau - without a stop - to Sobibor)."

Four or five hours after arrival at the camp, the witness was deported to Lublin. Her return home occurred via Birkenau.

Sientje and Jetje Veterman, sent to Sobibór on April 6, 1943, were sorted out together with 28 other women for work and transferred to Trawniki with them. They returned to the Netherlands by way of Auschwitz-Birkenau.

Elias Alex Cohen, deported to Sobibór on March 17, 1943, spent only a few hours in the camp and was sent to Lublin with 35 other Jews. Sophie Verduin, deported on March 10, 1943, was transferred to Lublin after a few hours; her return home to Holland took place by way of Auschwitz-Birkenau.

Jozef Wins de Heer, deported on May 11, 1943, went from Sobibór to Doruhucza. He returned home to the Netherlands by way of Lublin-Majdanek.

In a well-documented book, which was published in Dutch in 1993 and was later translated into German, Jules Schelvis writes that "in Sobibor, after the arrival of transports, the fresh work forces for Dorohucza" were "selected." At Dorohucza, 5 km from Trawniki, was a labor camp where peat was cut. According to Schelvis, at least 700 Dutch Jews were transferred there directly after their arrival in Sobibór, but according to him only two of them are supposed to have survived the war. There is certain knowledge of 171 of these persons - 147 men and 24 women - since they sent postcards home from Dorohucza.

Dorohucza was only one of many Jewish labor camps, which overlay the Lublin district like a dense network. Edward Dziadosz and Józef Marszałek count no fewer than 110 of them. As can be gathered from the statements summarized above of former deportees, other Dutch Jews were transferred from Sobibór to Lublin and then onward to such labor camps. Schelvis has documented a total of 89 postcards sent by Dutch Jews from Sobibór, 171 from Dorohucza, 52 from Lublin and 9 from Upper Silesia.

It also happened that a portion of the Jews fit to work were sorted out from the rail cars before the train reached its final destination. This was the case for a transport that departed Vienna on June 14, 1942. After the train had arrived in Lublin, 51 Jews between 15 and 50 years of age had to get off; the remaining 949 continued their trip to the "labor camp" Sobibór, where it took an hour to unload the train. The original destination of the trip had been Izbica.

It is characteristic that nearly all the Dutch Jews, who had been transferred from Sobibór to another camp, returned home by way of Auschwitz-Birkenau; instead of being liquidated as bearers of top-secret knowledge, they survived even this 'extermination camp.'

From what has been established here, it emerges that a portion of the Jews deported to the Lublin district were deported across the Bug into the Ukraine. Dutch, French, and Czech Jews reached Minsk. The deportation of Polish Jews to White Russia were, according to C. Gerlach, "extremely extensive" and they were "taken to Minsk by railway."


Now, look at this:

Date: November 23, 2001

"Mass Graves Found at Nazi Polish Death Camp

WARSAW (Reuters) - Polish archaeologists excavating the Nazi death camp in Sobibor said on Friday they had found mass graves at the site, which was evacuated by German occupying forces in October 1943 after a prisoner uprising.

The excavations were the first since World War Two at the former camp, which was subsequently forested over. They could provide valuable new evidence on the number of victims, mainly Jews, who died in the Sobibor gas chambers.

According to official Polish accounts, 250,000 people were killed in Sobibor, which was opened in May 1942 and lies close to the eastern border with Ukraine.

``We uncovered seven mass graves with an average depth of five yards. In them there were charred human remains and under them remains in a state of decay. That means that in the final stage the victims were burned,'' archaeologist Andrzej Kola was quoted by the Polish PAP news agency telling a news conference.

He said the largest grave measured 70 by 25 yards, the others 20 by 25 yards...


http://www.aiipowmia.com/inter21/in112301dc.html


Six "huge mass graves" measuring 25 X 20 X 5 yards and one measuring 70 X 25 X 5 yards - filled with charred human remains?

Can anyone show us where all these "huge mass graves" filled with "charred human remains" of Sobibor are?

How about just one of them?

Just one.

One.
Last edited by Greg Gerdes on Wed May 14, 2008 10:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Greg Gerdes » 1 decade 1 year ago (Tue May 13, 2008 2:45 pm)

Now let's look at what that incredible dullard - Roberto Muehlenkamp, has to say about the "huge mass graves" of Sobibor: (from: http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot. ... sh_18.html )

"As before in regard to Treblinka and Belzec, Mr. Ugly Voice tries to take his readers for a ride by "estimating" the burial space available at Sobibor... it seems there are viewers blind and/or stupid enough to let themselves be taken in by such a kindergarten-level hoax. Which is not surprising, by the way, to who has spent some time looking at the world of "Revisionist" lunacy, which is full of fanatics eager to switch off their tiny brains in order to believe what they would like to believe.

...If, on the other hand, you use the plausible densities mentioned in the same article, you get the following:

• At 8 bodies per cubic meter (Mattogno’s "maximum capacity"): 99,592 bodies

• At 10.7 bodies per cubic meter (Alex Bay’s calculation): 133,204 bodies

• At 14.8 bodies per cubic meter (pursuant to Charles Provan’s experiment: 184.245 bodies.

So we can see that, even by the lowest calculation that can be considered reasonable, the American Football spectator crowd of about 80,000 people that Mr. Ugly Voice tries to impress his gullible viewers with could very well fit into the burial space available at Sobibor, as established according to Prof. Kola’s above-mentioned findings. Unsurprisingly, Mr. Ugly Voice has it all wrong once again."


So the dullest of all the holocaust controversies dullards claims that the estimate of 80,000 buried in the "huge mass graves" of Sobibor is a hoax and also sneers at the figure of 100,000. He goes on to estimate 133,000 to 184,000 bodies are buried in the "huge mass graves" of Sobibor.

Of course, this begs the question - Even if the maximum figure of 184,000 are buried in the "huge mass graves" of Sobibor, then why do so many hoaxers claim that the figure is 250,000?

But of course, the real question is, a question that even a kindergartener would ask: IF the official Sobibor holocasut story is true - Then where EXACTLY are these alleged "huge mass graves?"

And a question:

When is Kola going to publish the results of this investigation?
Last edited by Greg Gerdes on Wed May 14, 2008 10:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 1 year ago (Tue May 13, 2008 6:13 pm)

Here's a revealing thread on shyster Kola and Sobibor:
'Sobibor camp debunked'
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=57
excerpts:
"According to alleged eyewitness, Alexander Pechersky, gassings at Sobibor took place via a black heavy substance which exited in spirals from holes in the roof. Then the floor of the gas chamber opened up, and the bodies fell directly into wagons placed in the basement."

"At the concentration camp in Sobibor, Poland, the Nazis assembled squawking schools of geese to cover the shrieks of inmates who were being gassed."

“then the floor opened automatically. The bodies fell into wagons on a railroad track which passed through the gas chambers and took the corpses to the ovens.”

Search 'Kola' at this forum for more.

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Postby Laurentz Dahl » 1 decade 1 year ago (Wed May 14, 2008 1:32 am)

Jules Schelvis in his book Sobibor A History of a Nazi Death Camp (2007) writes down the victim figure to 170,000.

I have contacted the people who run

http://www.undersobibor.org/

and got it confirmed that no report or other kind of article on Kola's supposed excavations at Sobibor has been published, neither in Polish journals nor elsewhere. Apparently Kola has some kind of "problems" with the Polish government...

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Postby Laurentz Dahl » 1 decade 1 year ago (Sat Jun 28, 2008 4:24 am)

New articles on Sobibor by revisionist writer Thomas Kues:

Witness Accounts By Former Sobibor Prisoners, Part 1:
http://www.codoh.com/newrevoices/nrtksobi1.html

Witness Accounts By Former Sobibor Prisoners, Part 2:
http://www.codoh.com/newrevoices/nrtksobi2.html

The Ground Water Level at Sobibór 1942-1943:
http://www.codoh.com/newrevoices/nrtksgwl.html

The Alleged First Gas Chamber Building at Sobibór:
http://www.codoh.com/newrevoices/nrtkfsgc.html


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