HCN concentrations for insects and warm-blooded animals

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HCN concentrations for insects and warm-blooded animals

Postby muller » 1 decade 2 years ago (Mon Jan 19, 2009 12:28 pm)

HCN concentrations
Anti-revisionists, when confronted with with the high concentrations of cyanides in the walls of the delousing chambers (5670 +/- 3900 ppm) and the low concentrations in the walls of the alleged homicidal gas chambers (4.8 +/- 3 ppm) usually explain that by pretending that much higher concentrations of HCN are needed for killing insects than for killing humans. As proof, they quote some handbook on pest control, where high concentrations are stipulated to make sure that 100% of the insects, including their eggs, are killed, and compare that to another handbook, a handbook on occupational safety and health for people working in a HCN-contaminated environment, where only very low concentrations are considered admissible in order to make sure that not a single person, even the most susceptible one, is at risk. It is obvious that these two concentrations are not comparable.
But what handbook did the SS use when they applied Zyklon B at Auschwitz and in other camps? This book exists, and it was well known in Germany 1942.1945. The title is "Entkeimung, Entwesung und Entseuchung" ("Disinfestation and Disinfection"). The author is one Dr. med. Doetzer, employed as Hauptsturmfuehrer (captain) in the hygiene department of the Rechssicherheitshauptamt, the main security service of the SS in Berlin. In the foreword, he says thanks to two men who consulted him on chemical and technical matters. One was the chemist Dr. Bruno Tesch, who was responsible for the distribution of Zyklon B in Eastern Europe and who was hanged for that by the British Military Government in 1946. The other one was the engineer Kurt Gerstein, employed as Untersturmfuehrer (second lieutenant) at the RSSHA, who wrote the famous and more than a little lunatic Gerstein reports.
Doetzers book was a summary of 20 years of scientific research and practical experience. It was edited by the SS itself in 1942; a second edition appeared in 1943. It was, for SS members, the highest possible authority.
On page 114 of the book, there is a table on the concentrations and the time of exposure for different species of vermin:

Species Concentration Time of exposure
rats and mice 6 g/cubic metre 4 hours
bedbugs 10 " 12 "
silverfish 6 " 6 "
fleas 6 " 6 "
cockroaches 15 " 48 "
clothes moths 15 48 "
tinea pelliconella same as clothes moths
skin beetles " " " "
clothes lice 10 g / cubic metre 12 hours
head lice same as clothes lice

You see at first glance that the concentrations for killing warm-blooded animals -which would include humans- do not differ significantly from those for killing insects; in fact, the differences between different species of insects are much larger. One factor is probably body activity which means high consumption of breathing air and, consequently, high susceptibility to poisonous gases; rats and mice and fleas have higher body activity tha e. g. bedbugs. as everyone knows. But be that as it may; nobody in his right mind will pretend that the difference between 6 g of Zyklon B per cubic metre for humans and 10 g/ cubic metre for lice can explain the difference between an average contration of 4,8 ppm in the walls of the alleged homicidal gas chambers and of 5670 ppm in the walls of the delousing chambers.

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Postby KostasL » 1 decade 2 years ago (Mon Jan 19, 2009 5:58 pm)

Muller, thank you for this valuable information.

muller wrote:Species Concentration Time of exposure
rats and mice 6 g/cubic metre 4 hours
clothes lice 10 g / cubic metre 12 hours
head lice same as clothes lice

To kill rats : concentration 6g/m3 and time 4 hours.

To kill humans : what should be concentration if time is 5 to 20 minutes ?

I guess concentrations should be even higher since time is considerable less.

To set it differently : are higher concentrations needed to have quicker homicidal results ?
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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 2 years ago (Mon Jan 19, 2009 9:38 pm)

The 'cyanide amount to kill lice vs. amount to kill humans' canard is demolished here in a revealing debate:

'Green, Mathis refuted / cyanide: lice, humans, & more'

Chemist, Germar Rudolf has shown: "the minimum amount of Zyklon B to be introduced in these rooms would have been in the order of magnitude of ten times the amount normally used for delousing procedures".
Read more in sec. 4 of - http://www.vho.org/GB/c/GR/RudolfOnVanPelt.html

It's important to remember that alleged 'eyewitnesses' have claimed death that was achieved in mere minutes, which would have necessitated extremely high amounts of Zyklon-B and resulting high levels of cyanide residue in these alleged gas chambers, which are not to be found, as demonstrated by Rudolf.

also see:

And don't miss:
'Cyanide Chemistry at Auschwitz'

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Postby muller » 1 decade 2 years ago (Tue Jan 20, 2009 4:02 am)

Kostasl asks "are higher concentrations needed for quicker results?"
The answer is yes. The calculation is simple, although purely theoretical. If you need 4 hours=240 minutes for accumulating a lethal dosis in your body, then, for inhaling the same quantity in 20 minutes, you need a concentration 240/20= 12 times as high, i. e. 72 g/m3. That calculation would be true under ideal conditions only. i. e. if the gas chamber is made of steel and glass and if the door is perfectly gastight. But the concentration stipulated in the table is based on practical experience in ordinary buildings like slum apartments, granaries, wool spinning mills etc., where walls, floors and ceilings are made of brickwork and concrete. During 4 hours, gas would be continually lost there through the pores, by chemical reaction with cement and lime or through racks around windows and doors, so that not 100% of the gas arrives in the lungs of the victims but maybe only 50%. A concentration of perhaps 36 g/m3 may then be sufficient to kill within 20 minutes.

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Postby ps » 1 decade 2 years ago (Thu Jan 22, 2009 12:09 pm)

Diese Argumentation ist nicht haltbar und macht den Revisionismus völlig unglaubwürdig! Offizielle und ich denke unabhängige Untersuchungen (Irmscher) gehen von einer tödlichen Dosis zwischen 1mg/kg und 2 mg/kg Körpergewicht aus. Andere Quellen reden von Konzentrationen um 300 ppm und einer zugehörigen Tötungszeit von rund 10 Minuten. Diese Grenzen müssen beachtet werden!

Insgesamt kann man von einem Konzentration * Zeit Produkt von etwa 2000ppmMinuten ausgehen.

Eine Laus oder eine Ratte ist nicht mit einem Menschen vergleichbar. Das sind vollkommen andere Organismen. Dies ist aus Tierversuchen wohlbekannt. Es gibt in der Tat keine Möglichkeit, aus Tierversuchen auf die menschliche Reaktion schließen zu können.

Es besteht auch nicht der allergeringste Grund, zu solch völlig unglaubwürdigen 36g/m³ Zuflucht suchen zu müssen. Die "Zeugen" haben uns genügend Material geliefert, um ihre eigenen Aussagen ad Absurdum zu führen! Ich werde dies hier einmal demonstrieren.


6 kg Zyklon für 1000 Personen
10 Minuten Tötungszeit
2000 Personen in der 506m³ großen Auschwitzer Gaskammer.
Lüftung mit 5000m³/h nach Todeseintritt
Herausholen der Leichen nach 30 Minuten ab Zykloneinwurf

Biologische Fakten:
1 mg/kg Körpergewicht ist tödlich
tödliches Konzentration * Zeit Produkt etwa 2000ppmMinuten (dies ist ungefähr die untere Grenze!)
50 kg durchschnittliches Körpergewicht eines Juden (incl. Kinder)

Bitte nun nicht aufschreien. Mit genau diesen Daten widerlegt man den Holocaust! Außerdem ist immer zu beachten, daß Juden besonders empfindlich auf Zyklon B reagieren. Diese Daten sind also dem jüdischen Organismus durchaus angemessen.


Innerhalb von 10 Minuten wurde also so viel HCN freigesetzt, daß das Tötungsprodukt von 2000ppm Minuten erreicht wurde und durch die Atmung 1mg/kg eingeatmet wurde.

Freies Luftvolumen in der Gaskammer = 506m³ - 2000 Personen * 0,05m³ / Person = 406 m³

Annahme: Innerhalb dieser 10 Minuten wurde das HCN Gas gleichmäßig freigesetzt. Damit 2000ppm Minuten in dieser Zeit erreicht werden, muß im Mittel eine Konzentration von 200 ppm geherrscht haben. Am Ende der 10 Minuten jedoch muß eine Konzentration von 400 ppm geherrscht haben.

Die Juden haben in dieser Zeit 50 kg/Jude * 1mg/kg * 2000 Juden = 100 g HCN Gas eingeatmet und sind dann tot wie eine Laus.

Am Ende der 10 Minuten sind in der Gaskammerluft bei 400 ppm HCN Konzentration und 406m³ noch 406m³ * 0,0004 kg/m³ = 0,1624 kg = 162,4 g HCN Gas.

Insgesamt wurde bis zu diesen 10 Minuten Tötungszeitpunkt also 100 g + 162,4g = 262,4 g HCN Gas freigesetzt. Oder eben 26,24 g je Minute. Dies ist also die bei dieser Vergasung vorhanden gewesene Verdampfungsleistung an Zyklon B!

Man kann dies auch in Wärmeleistung angeben, was aber für die weiteren Betrachtungen nicht wesentlich ist. Diese 26,24 g/ Minute entsprechen dann 26,247 gHCN * 976 J/g * 1 Minute / 60 s = 426,8 J/s = 426,8 Watt Verdampfungsleistung. Diese Leistung konnte mit den Kula Drahtnetz Säulen nicht erreicht werden! Aber das ist eine andere Baustelle.

Wir wissen jetzt also, daß in einer Minute 26,24 g HCN verdampft worden sein muß, um die Juden in 10 Minuten getötet zu haben.

Nun wird die Lüftung eingeschaltet, welche mit 5000 m³/h die Gaskammer lüftet. Das sind in 1 Minute dann 83,3 m³/ Minute.

Das Zyklon gast aber immer noch mit 26,24 g/ Minute aus. Daher ergibt sich in der Gaskammer nach einiger Zeit eine HCN Konzentration von 26,24 g/ Minute / 83,3 m³ Luft/ Minute = 0,315 g HCN/m³ oder 315 ppm HCN trotz der 5000 m³/h Lüftung!

Diese hohe Konzentration ist innerhalb von 2000 ppm * Minute / 315 ppm = 6,35 Minuten tödlich !

Solange das Zyklon nicht vollständig ausgegast ist, kann die Gaskammer nicht betreten werden.

Wie lange dauert das Ausgasen nun, wenn 6 kg HCN/1000 Personen benötigt wurden? Wir haben also 12000 g HCN welche mit 26,24 g/ Minute ausgasen. Nach 12000g / 26,24g/Minute = 457 Minuten oder eben 7,6 Stunden hätte man die Gaskammer betreten können!

Die Juden behaupten allerdings, die Gaskammer sei bereits nach 30 Minuten ohne Gasmasken begehbar gewesen!

Damit ist diese Lügengeschichte bereits vollständig widerlegt! Und dies gelang sogar bei voller Anerkennung der Zeugenaussagen und der bekannten Wissenschaft!

Automatic "translation":

This argumentation is not durable and makes the revisionism completely improbable! Official ones and I think independent investigations (Irmscher) proceed from a deadly dose between 1mg/kg and 2 mg/kg body weight. Other sources talk about concentrations around 300 ppm and an associated killing time of approximately 10 minutes. These borders must be considered!

Altogether one can proceed from concentration * time product with for instance 2000ppmMinutes.

A louse or a rat is not comparable with humans. Those are completely different organisms. This is well-known from animal experiments. There is indeed no possibility of being able to judge from animal experiments the human reaction.

There is not also the all-smallest reason to have to look for to such completely improbable 36g/m ³ refuge. "Witnesses" supplied sufficient material to us with, in order to lead their own statements ad Absurdum! I will once demonstrate this here.


6 kg cyclone for 1000 persons
10 minutes killing time
2000 persons in the 506m ³ large Auschwitzer Gaskammer.
Ventilation with 5000m ³ /h after death entrance
Take out the corpses after 30 minutes starting from cyclone A THROw

Biological facts:
1 mg/kg body weight is deadly
deadly concentration * time product for instance 2000ppmMinuten (this is approximate the lower limit!)
50 kg average body weight of a Jew (inclusive. Children)

Do not ask now proclamations. Through exactly these data one disproves the Holocaust! In addition it is to be always noted that Jews react particularly sensitively to cyclone B. These data are thus quite appropriate for the Jewish organism.


Within 10 minutes so much HCN was thus set free that the killing product was reached by 2000ppm minutes and by the respiration 1mg/kg was inhaled.

Free air volume in the Gaskammer = 506m ³ - 2000 persons * 0,05m ³/person = 406 m ³

Acceptance: Within these 10 minutes the HCN gas was set free evenly. So that 2000ppm are reached minutes in this time, on the average a concentration of 200 must have prevailed ppm. At the end of the 10 minutes however a concentration of 400 must have prevailed ppm.

The Jews inhaled in this time 50 kg/Jew * 1mg/kg * 2000 Jews = 100 g HCN gas and are then dead like a louse.

At the end of the 10 minutes concentration and 406m are ³ still 406m ³ * 0.0004 kg/m ³ = 0.1624 kg = 162.4 g HCN gas in gas chamber air with 400 ppm HCN.

Altogether up to these 10 minutes killing time 100 g + 162,4g = 262.4 g HCN gas was thus set free. Or evenly 26.24 g per minute. This is thus present the evaporation achievement at cyclone B, which was with this gasification!

One can indicate this also in thermal output, what however for the further views is not substantial. These 26.24 g minute correspond then to 26.247 gHCN * 976 J/g * 1 minute/60 s = 426.8 J/s = 426.8 Watts of evaporation achievement. This achievement could not be achieved with the Kula wire net columns! But that is another building site.

We know now thus that in one minute of 26.24 g HCN must have been evaporated, in order the Jews in 10 minutes to have killed.

Now the ventilation is switched on, which ventilates the Gaskammer with 5000 m ³ /h. Those are in 1 minute then 83.3 m ³/minute.

Cyclone guest however still with 26,24 g minute out. Therefore a HCN concentration of 26,24 g minute/83.3 m results ³ air minute = 0.315 g HCN/m ³ or 315 ppm HCN (0,315g/m³) despite the 5000 m ³ /h ventilation in the Gaskammer after some time!

This high concentration is within 2000 ppm * minute/315 ppm = 6.35 minutes mortally!

As long as that is not completely outgassed cyclone, the Gaskammer cannot be entered.

How long does the outgassing last now, if 6 kg HCN/1000 persons were needed? We have thus 12000 g HCN which with 26,24 g minute to outgas. After 12000g/26,24g/Minute = 457 minutes or evenly 7.6 hours one could have entered the Gaskammer!

The Jews state however, the Gaskammer was accessible already after 30 minutes without gas masks!

Thus this lie history is already completely disproved! And this succeeded even when full acknowledgment of the testimonies and the well-known science!

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Postby muller » 1 decade 2 years ago (Fri Jan 23, 2009 4:57 am)

Dear PS, that's a new one to me, that mice and rats are entirely different organisms from humans. Why do you think that pharmaceutists test new medicaments an mice and rats first?

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Postby KostasL » 1 decade 2 years ago (Fri Jan 23, 2009 5:57 am)

Quote from : German Poison Gas (1914 - 1944) By Richard A. Widmann


The introduction of chemical warfare was actively lobbied by I.G. Farben and by its head, Carl Duisberg. Duisberg not only urged that the German high command use poison gas at a special conference in 1914, he personally studied the toxicity of the various war gases.[4] Duisberg also supported Fritz Haber, Germany's leading scientist at the time and head of its premier scientific laboratory, the Kaiser Wilhelm Institute for Physical Chemistry in Berlin. In his studies of the effects of poison gas, Haber noted that exposure to a low concentration of a poisonous gas for a long time often had the same effect (death) as exposure to a high concentration for a short time. He formulated a mathematical relationship between the gas concentration and necessary exposure time. This relationship became known as Haber’s rule.

Quote from Wikipedia :

Haber's rule is a mathematical statement of the relationship between the concentration of a poisonous gas and how long the gas must be breathed to produce death, or other toxic effect. The rule was formulated by German chemist Fritz Haber in the early 1900s.

Haber's rule states that, for a given poisonous gas, , where C is the concentration of the gas (mass per unit volume), t is the amount of time necessary to breathe the gas, in order to produce a given toxic effect, and k is a constant, depending on both the gas and the effect. Thus, the rule states that doubling the concentration will halve the time, for example.

Haber's rule is an approximation, useful with certain inhaled poisons under certain conditions, and Haber himself acknowledged that it was not always applicable. It is very convenient, however, because its relationship between C and t appears as a straight line in a log-log plot. In 1940, statistician C. I. Bliss published a study (Bliss, 1940) of toxicity in insecticides in which he proposed more complex models, for example, expressing the relationship between C and t as two straight line segments in a log-log plot. However, because of its simplicity, Haber's rule continued to be widely used. Recently, some researchers have argued (Miller et al., 2000) that it is time to move beyond the simple relationship expressed by Haber's rule and to make regular use of more sophisticated models.
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Postby ps » 1 decade 2 years ago (Fri Jan 23, 2009 6:05 am)

Dear muller

Pharmacy hopes only to be able to suspect from these experiments something. Actual it is however like a reading from the coffee set. Humans are here always the first real test object. In the Pharmaindustrie is well-known. Recently there was again once a consequence-fraught complication with the persons, with whom a medicine was tried out. From the animal experiments these complications were evenly not derivable before.
For this reason there are also the animal experiment opponents. The animal experiments are useless.

This is however not the topic. The topic are the 36g HCN/m ³ (36000 ppm), which is to make allegedly a death possible in 10 minutes at all. This argument is demonstrably wrongly and from there extremely dangerous for the revisionism.

As I showed, this argument is also not at all necessary.


* TDLo (human, peroral): 1,471 mg·kg−1 [3]
* TDLo (human, i.v.): 0,055 mg·kg−1 [3]
* LC50 (human, inhalativ): [4]
3030 ppm nach 1 min [ = 3030 ppm * min]
270 ppm nach 6-8 min [ = 1900 ppm * min]
181 ppm nach 10 min [ = 1810 ppm * min ]
135 ppm nach 30 min [ = 4000 ppm * min ]

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Postby muller » 1 decade 2 years ago (Fri Jan 23, 2009 7:00 am)

Dear PS,
I do not doubt that your calculation is good for debunking anti-revisionism. My quote from an official SS publiction just shows that there is no fundamental difference between warm-blooded animals and insects as far as suceptibility to HCN is concerned, thereby debunking an often-applied anti-revisionist argument. Why should'nt there be several ways to debunk antirevisionism?

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Postby ps » 1 decade 2 years ago (Fri Jan 23, 2009 8:16 am)

Das Problem ist, daß wir nicht der allgemein anerkannten Wissenschaft widersprechen dürfen, um widerlegende Gründe zu finden. Ich habe oben Daten von Wikipedia gezeigt, welche anerkannt sind und weit von den 36000 ppm entfernt liegen. Diese Daten gelten zudem für Menschen. Sie sind in sehr ähnlicher Form auch bei Peters oder Irmscher etc. für den Menschen enthalten.

Es darf also nicht mit der Unenpfindlichkeit anderer Lebewesen argumentiert werden. Außerdem ist eine Gebäudedurchgasung ein völlig anderer Vorgang als eine Durchgasung in einer Gaskammer. Die Gaskammer wurde nämlich als luftdicht behauptet (gasdichte Tür). Auch dieses Argument dürfen wir nicht anzweifeln! Es ist allerbestens für eine Widerlegung geeignet!

Ein normales Gebäude aus der damaligen Zeit konnte man gar nicht so gut abdichten, wie es erforderlich ist. Das bedeutet, daß man während der Begasung mit einer natürlich vorhandenen Lüftung rechnen mußte und daher von vorneherein mit einer wesentlich höheren Zyklonmenge kalkulieren mußte, um das gewünschte Ergebnis zu erzielen.

Heutige Gebäude sind dicht. Damalige Gebäude waren rund 10 mal so undicht wie heutige!

Bei der Gaskammer dagegen sieht das anders aus. Sie liegt im Keller, hat Betondecken und ist alleine wegen des Grundwassers schon mit luftdichtem Mauerwerk versehen.

Unser Vorteil, welchen wir daraus wunderbar ziehen können, ist der durch diese behauptete Luftdichtigkeit unbestreitbare Umstand, daß dei Juden in solch einem dichten Raum mit sehr wenig Atemluft in kürzester Zeit von alleine erstickt wären!

Eine Giftgaszugabe wäre daher nicht nur nicht erforderlich gewesen, sondern hätte die Leichenproduktionsleistung sogar erheblich gemindert!

Wie oben gezeigt bedingt eine Zyklonvergasung lange Lüftungszeiten. Hätte man die Juden einfach ersticken lassen, rund 15-30 Minuten wären hierfür erforderlich gewesen, je nach Umständen, hätte man danach sofort die Juden ausräumen können. Nach höchstens 5 Minuten Lüftungszeit oder sogar noch weniger!

Dieses nichtbehauptete Verfahren wäre neben der ebenfalls nichtbehaupteten Generatorgasvergiftung das effizienteste gewesen. Und auch das Allereinfachste!

Wir haben alle Waffen in der Hand, welche wir uns nur wünschen können. Wir sind eben nicht gezwungen, den Behauptungen der Juden selbst widersprechen zu müssen. Wir dürfen die Behauptungen akzeptieren.

Die Widerlegung gelingt dann durch Widerspruch infolge der technischen und logischen Unvereinbarkeit der Behauptungen mit der Physik. Die Juden selbst liefern uns die besten Gegenargumente. Wir müssen nur ihre Argumente zusammen verarbeiten und dürfen eben nicht gegen das einzelne Argument vorgehen.

Die Verrechnung aller Behauptungen bringt dann den nicht zu widerlegenden Widerspruch. Und dies sogar vielfältig und nicht mehr widerlegbar.

Oben habe ich nur die leicht zu errechnende Lüftungszeit als Argument benutzt. Ich habe in diesem Fall also bereits vorausgesetzt, daß es möglich gewesen wäre, daß Gas so schnell freizusetzen, daß die Tötung in der behaupteten Zeit möglich gewesen wäre.

Ich kann aber bedarfsweise auch diesen Punkt untersuchen, ob es überhaupt thermodynamisch möglich gewesen wäre, so schnell das Gas freizusetzen. Auch hier zeigt es sich, daß das nicht möglich gewesen wäre.

Man kann weiter zeigen, daß es mit den behaupteten Verfahren sogar gar nicht möglich gewesen wäre, die Juden mit Zyklon B zu töten. Aus dem einfachen Grund, weil das Gas mit den behaupteten Vorrichtungen niemals so schnell hätte freigesetzt werden können, daß es die Juden schneller hätte töten können als sie von alleine erstickt wären.

Wir haben die bestmöglichen Argumente, die Judenbehauptungen selbst, auf unserer Seite und müssen sie nur mit Verstand, insbesonders mit Sachverstand nutzen.

Automatic "translation":

The problem is that we may not contradict the generally recognized science, in order to find disproving reasons. I showed data of Wikipedia above, which are appreciative and far from the 36000 ppm removes to lie. These data are valid besides for humans. They are contained of Peter or Irm etc. for humans in very similar form also with.

It may be argued thus not with the Unenpfindlichkeit of other organisms. In addition a building by gassing is completely different procedure than a Durchgasung in a Gaskammer. The Gaskammer was maintained as hermetic (gas density door). Also we may not doubt this argument! It is all in the best way suitable for a refutation!

From the time at that time one could not at all seal a normal building so well, as it is necessary. That means that one had to count during the aeration on a naturally existing ventilation and from the beginning calculate from there with a substantially higher cyclone quantity had, in order to obtain the desired result.

Today's buildings are close. Buildings at that time were approximately 10 times as leaky as today's!

With the Gaskammer against it looks differently. It lies in the cellar, has concrete covers and is alone because of the groundwater already provided with hermetic brick-work.

Our advantage, which we can draw from it marvelously, is the circumstance incontestable by this maintained airtightness that dei Jews would be of alone suffocated in such a close area with very little breathing air in shortest time!

A poisonous gas addition would have been from there not only not necessarily, but the corpse production achievement would have even substantially reduced!

As shown a cyclone gasification causes long ventilation times above. If one would have let simple suffocate the Jews, approximately 15-30 minutes would have been for this necessary, depending upon circumstances, one could have eliminated thereafter the Jews immediately. After at the most 5 minutes ventilation time or even still less!

This not-stated procedure would have been apart from the likewise not-stated generator gas poisoning the most efficient. And also the simplest!

We have all weapons in the hand, which we can only wish ourselves. We are evenly compelling to have to contradict the statements of the Jews themselves. We may accept the statements.

The refutation succeeds then by contradiction due to the technical and logical incompatability of the statements with physics. The Jews supply the best counterarguments to us with. We must process and not be allowed to do only their arguments together evenly against the individual argument to proceed.

The accounting of all statements does not bring then that to contradiction which can be disproved. And this even variously and no longer refutably.

I used only those above ventilation time which can be calculated easily as argument. I have in this case thus already provided that it had been possible to set free that gas so fast that the killing would have been possible in the maintained time.

I can examine however bedarfsweise also this point whether it would have been thermodynamically possible at all to set so fast the gas free. It is shown also here that would not have been possible.

One can show further that it would have been possible with the maintained procedures even not at all to kill the Jews with cyclone B. For the simple reason, because the gas with the maintained devices could have been set free never so fast that it could have killed the Jews faster than it would be from alone suffocated.

We have the optimum arguments, the Jew statements themselves, on our side and must them only with understanding, in particular with expert knowledge use.

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