An interesting article on Concentration Camps

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Dan Cullum
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An interesting article on Concentration Camps

Postby Dan Cullum » 1 decade 6 years ago (Tue Oct 14, 2003 5:30 pm)

I found an interesting article about the concentration camps. It certainly clarified in my mind the difference between revisionist and neo-revisionist. I can safely say it is the former.

The following is from:

http://www.wintersonnenwende.com/scriptorium/english/archives/articles/ccfacts.html

The workdays in the camps were formalized in 1938. On weekdays, the inmates worked from 0730 to 1200 and from 1230 to 1700, for a total of nine hours a day. On Saturdays work was from 0730-1200, for a total of four and one-half hours. Not only were Saturday afternoons free, but Christian inmates had all of Sunday to attend their own services within the camp and to contemplate the reasons for their imprisonment


I was wondering if this applied to all camps until the end of the war.

Over the years, tens of thousands of inmates were released from the camps once they had shown that they had chosen to reform themselves. On many occasions the commandants of the camps had determined that inmates had abandoned their old ways and had chosen to become loyal members of German society. As late as October 1944, inmates were being released, and many of these were communists who had abandoned their previous beliefs.


However, instead of being vindictive or out to do harm to the communists, the concentration camp at Dachau was designed to reform them and make them into citizens that the Germans could be proud of - citizens who could return to German society at large and live out their lives as peaceful and proper German men and women. Instead of being an institution aimed at punishment, the German system of concentration camps was designed to reform and to reeducate enemies of the new German state.


I found the following to be strange:

In a book written on the camp established at Oranienburg, Werner Schafer claimed that some citizens in the local communities asked permission to send some of their rebelling children to the camps to learn self-discipline. Schafer also said that there were some prisoners who were offered release who refused since they could not remember doing work since the beginning of the Great Depression.14 Schafer listed the types of food eaten by the prisoners and computed how much weight they had gained during their internment in the camp.


The heirs of any prisoner who died while being held at one of the camps were eligible to collect their life insurance. Since the life insurance policies would expire if the premiums were not paid, and the inmates were incarcerated and without any substantial income, the SS came up with a solution that Establishment historians will not give them credit for. The SS set up its own fund to pay the insurance premiums of prisoners until the day they died.23 In this way, the loved ones of incarcerated inmates would not be overly burdened if their relative died while in custody.


This I have never heard of. Has anyone at the forum?

The SS tried over 700 staff members throughout the course of the Third Reich for their conduct toward inmates. This was because the SS and the National Socialist state always considered concentration camps to be re-education camps first and foremost.


...the concentration camps would be seen to be a punitive punishment and not the center of re-education that they really were.


I think that this article will stir up more than a little contraversy. For one, it is from the Barnes Review, but mainly it presents the concentration camps in a light that I have never seen before, i.e., purely humane places.

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Postby Sailor » 1 decade 6 years ago (Thu Oct 16, 2003 10:55 am)

About German concentration camps I use these sources:

Dr. Franz Scheidl, ”Die Konzentrationslager”, in German
http://vho.org/D/gdvd_3/index.html

Prof. Paul Rassinier, ”Debunking the Genocide Myth”
http://vho.org/aaargh/engl/RassArch/PRd ... Intro.html
Rassinier was as an inmate for two years in Buchenwald and Dora.

Jürgen Graf, "National Socialist Concentration Camps: Legend and Reality"
http://vho.org/GB/Books/dth/fndGraf.html

Dr. Benedikt Kautskys, ”Teufel und Verdammte”, a book in German.
Dr. Kautsky, a Jew, spent over seven years in Dachau, Buchenwald and Auschwitz.
He says up front that his book is a political book, which is to say that it is tendentious (marked by a strong tendency especially a controversial one).

I think that most of the quotes by the user are about correct and in agreement with the various sources which I quoted.

For example Kautsky said about working in Dachau during his stay there:

Vom Mai 1938 angefangen war Samstag um 11 Uhr vormittag Schluß, also der Samstagnachmittag und der ganze Sonntag frei. ja, im September, nach Fertigstellung des Lagers, kam es so weit, daß die Juden nur noch jeden zweiten Nachmittag arbeiteten und die Arier, soweit sie nicht in den Werkstätten beschäftigt waren, überhaupt nicht…

(From the beginning of May 1938 the work assignment stopped Saturdays at 11:00 AM, Saturday afternoon and the whole of Sunday were off. In September, after completion of the camp, the Jews worked only every second afternoon, and the Aryans did not work at all, unless they were occupied in the workshops …)


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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 6 years ago (Thu Oct 16, 2003 11:42 am)

A good camp overview is available here:

http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=209

- H.
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Postby Dan Cullum » 1 decade 6 years ago (Thu Oct 16, 2003 6:05 pm)

Relating to this, there is an article on concentration camp money. It is at:

http://www.wintersonnenwende.com/scriptorium/english/archives/articles/ccmoney.html

According to the article...

There were at least 134 separate issues, in different denominations and styles, for such notorious places as Auschwitz, Buchenwald, Dachau, Oranienburg, Ravensbrück, Westerbork and at least 15 other camps.


Each prisoner was allowed up to 10 marks per week to be used for the purchase of cigarettes at the camp canteen, other canteen purchases, brothel visits, or credit to a savings account.


Does anyone know if there are records relating to the canteens (inventory lists, etc...)or of the savings accounts?

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Postby Sailor » 1 decade 6 years ago (Thu Oct 16, 2003 7:44 pm)

You may want to search Google with "Concentration camp money". Result: Almost 200,000 hits.

From Rassinier:

Jeder einzelne Häftling erhält regelmäßig einen Arbeitslohn: 2 bis 5 Reichsmark pro Woche.

(Each individual inmate receives regularly a work salary: 3 to 5 Reichsmark per week)
.

From http://www.thebirdman.org/Index/Others/ ... Money.html:

Concentration Camp Money
And other impossibles you never knew existed

written by one Jennifer White:

Far from being the "death camps" as you have heard so often, places like Auschwitz, Dachau and Buchenwald were not in the business of extermination. They were work camps, critical to the German war effort. But did you know that the Jewish workers were compensated for their labor with scrip printed specifically for their use in stores, canteens and even brothels? The prisoner monetary system was conceived in ghettos such as Lodz, carried to camps such as Auschwitz and Dachau and still existed in the displaced persons camps that were established by the Allies after World War II. Here is the story of the money the court historians do not want you to even suspect existed.
Piles of incinerated corpses were indicting images at Nuremberg, used to prove that the German-run concentration camps during World War II were intended for purposes of exterminating the Jews of Europe. However, a plethora of documentary evidence, long suppressed, shows that prisoners were relatively well-treated, compensated for their hard work and allowed to purchase luxuries to which even the German public did not have ready access. This is not the image of abject deprivation that the Holocaust lobby would like you to entertain.
The irrefutable proof is the existence of a means of exchange for goods and services: Money. There were at least 134 separate issues, in different denominations and styles, for such notorious places as Auschwitz, Buchen wald, Dachau, Oranien burg, Ravensbrück, Westerbork and at least 15 other camps. (See Paper Money of the World Part I: Modern Issues of Europe by Arnold Keller, Ph.D., 1956, pp. 23-25 for a complete listing.)
A monetary system was also in existence in the ghettos, most notably Theresienstadt and Lodz, which produced beautiful notes (veritable works of art) that make U.S. currency look dull.
There are numerous dealers in rare currency and numismatics who specialize in selling "concentration camp money" or "Holocaust money" as it has been sometimes called. But the very fact of its existence does not seem to have raised questions - as it should have - about what really did (and did not) happen inside the so-called "death camps" where the Holocaust scrip was circulating in the first place.
This scrip was not negotiable outside of the camp for which it was issued. This decreased the chance of a successful escape and made it impossible for the general public to purchase some of the rare luxuries available in the camps. According to Albert Pick in Das Lagergeld der Konzentrations- und D.P.-Lager: 1933-1945:
Inmates were not paid for the work but were given "coupons" now and then to buy things in the "Kantine". . . . As the war progressed badly and the number of workers declined, the KZ worker potential became important. Offers of "premiums" and other advantages were made to the inmates, tobacco was offered and even visits to bordellos. . . . In order that these scrips could not be used outside the camps, special money was printed.
Letter from Prisoner No. 11647 Block 28/3 Dachau KIII on September 8, 1940 to his relative in Litzmannstadt (Lodz):
"I must write you something about myself. I am very well. In the canteen I buy honey, marmalade, cookies, fruit and other food. If you worry about me, you'll indeed be committing a sin. I have more reason to worry about you. . . . (Letters from the Doomed: Concentration Camp Correspondence 1940-1945, Richard S. Geehr.)
There was a payment schedule at Theresienstadt utilizing Th. kr. (There sienstadt kroner) as the unit of exchange. (The Shekel Vol. XVI, No. 2, March-April 1983 p. 29). The breakdown looked like this:
Working men, according to their jobs: 105-205 Th. kr.
Working women, according to their jobs: 95-205 Th. kr.
Part-time workers: 80 Th. kr.
Caretakers: 70 Th. kr.
War-wounded and holders of the Iron Cross, First Class degree or higher: 195 Th. kr.
Prominente (doctors, professors, scientists, well-known cultural artists and politicians): 145 Th. kr.
To put this in perspective, a cup of coffee cost 2 Th. kr. The circulation in Theresienstadt was such that it was necessary to print over 5 million notes. See Papirove Penize Na Uzemi Ceskosloven ska 1762-1975, Second Edition, 1975, Hradek Kralove, trans. by Julius Sem, pp. 134-135.
The first worker's camp to have its own scrip was Oranienburg. Before using the camp scrip they used German currency in nearby towns, but the authorities decided to centralize. Currency was exchanged for camp money, less 30%. (The Shekel, Vol XVI, No. 2, March-April 1983, p. 40. "Concentration Camp Money of the Nazi Holocaust" by Steven Feller.)
Similarly at Buchenwald:
Each prisoner was allowed up to 10 marks per week to be used for the purchase of cigarettes at the camp canteen, other canteen purchases, brothel visits, or credit to a savings account. The regulations went on to specify that a visit to a brothel would cost 2 marks for which 1.5 marks would be kept by the SS and 0.5 marks would be used for "expenses." (Ibid., p. 41.)
Was there a similar situation at all of the other camps - at least those that issued currency? As this includes Auschwitz, it would be shocking indeed to even consider marmalade and cigarettes being purchased in this "death camp." Even the existence of money in camps gives us a look at what life was really like there, yet this information has yet to make it to the History Channel.
=====
Bibliography
American Israel Numismatic Association (Temarac, Florida)
Pick, Albert. Das Lagergeld der Konzentrations-und D.P.- Lager: 1993-1945, Munich, Battenberg Publishers, 1976.
Schöne, Michael H., Das Papiergeld im besetzten Deutschland 1945-1949, Regenstauf: Gietl, 1994.
Stahl, Zvi, Jewish Ghettos and Concentration Camps‚ Money, 1933-1945, London: D. Richman Books, 1990.
See also:
Campbell, Lance K., Dachau concentration camp scrip, Margate, Florida: American Israel Numismatic Association, 1992.
The Numismatist, April, 1981, by Steven Feller.
Numismatic Scrapbook Magazine, 1965, 1996, "POW Money and Medals" by Slabaugh, R. Arlie.
Schultze, Manfred, Unsere Arbeit-unsere Hoffnung: Das Ghetto in Lodz 1940-1945, Schwalmtal: Phil-Creativ, 1995.
Sem, Julius, Standard Catalog of World Paper Money, 1977 (Thereisenstadt notes)
Shtarot, Vol. I, No. 2, Oct, 1976. Yasha L. Beresiner.


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Re: An interesting article on Concentration Camps

Postby slob » 2 years 2 months ago (Thu Jan 25, 2018 1:33 pm)

Dan Cullum wrote:I found an interesting article about the concentration camps. It certainly clarified in my mind the difference between revisionist and neo-revisionist. I can safely say it is the former.

The following is from:

http://www.wintersonnenwende.com/scriptorium/english/archives/articles/ccfacts.html

The workdays in the camps were formalized in 1938. On weekdays, the inmates worked from 0730 to 1200 and from 1230 to 1700, for a total of nine hours a day. On Saturdays work was from 0730-1200, for a total of four and one-half hours. Not only were Saturday afternoons free, but Christian inmates had all of Sunday to attend their own services within the camp and to contemplate the reasons for their imprisonment


I was wondering if this applied to all camps until the end of the war.

Over the years, tens of thousands of inmates were released from the camps once they had shown that they had chosen to reform themselves. On many occasions the commandants of the camps had determined that inmates had abandoned their old ways and had chosen to become loyal members of German society. As late as October 1944, inmates were being released, and many of these were communists who had abandoned their previous beliefs.


However, instead of being vindictive or out to do harm to the communists, the concentration camp at Dachau was designed to reform them and make them into citizens that the Germans could be proud of - citizens who could return to German society at large and live out their lives as peaceful and proper German men and women. Instead of being an institution aimed at punishment, the German system of concentration camps was designed to reform and to reeducate enemies of the new German state.


I found the following to be strange:

In a book written on the camp established at Oranienburg, Werner Schafer claimed that some citizens in the local communities asked permission to send some of their rebelling children to the camps to learn self-discipline. Schafer also said that there were some prisoners who were offered release who refused since they could not remember doing work since the beginning of the Great Depression.14 Schafer listed the types of food eaten by the prisoners and computed how much weight they had gained during their internment in the camp.


The heirs of any prisoner who died while being held at one of the camps were eligible to collect their life insurance. Since the life insurance policies would expire if the premiums were not paid, and the inmates were incarcerated and without any substantial income, the SS came up with a solution that Establishment historians will not give them credit for. The SS set up its own fund to pay the insurance premiums of prisoners until the day they died.23 In this way, the loved ones of incarcerated inmates would not be overly burdened if their relative died while in custody.


This I have never heard of. Has anyone at the forum?

The SS tried over 700 staff members throughout the course of the Third Reich for their conduct toward inmates. This was because the SS and the National Socialist state always considered concentration camps to be re-education camps first and foremost.


...the concentration camps would be seen to be a punitive punishment and not the center of re-education that they really were.


I think that this article will stir up more than a little contraversy. For one, it is from the Barnes Review, but mainly it presents the concentration camps in a light that I have never seen before, i.e., purely humane places.


Well the hours were not too bad to start with???
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