Germans Punished in World War II for Mistreating Jews

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Zulu
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Germans Punished in World War II for Mistreating Jews

Postby Zulu » 8 years 4 months ago (Mon May 14, 2012 11:23 am)

In a brilliant speech at the 14th IHR conference (2002), Pr. Faurisson exposes some facts that exterminationists could hardly explain if an alleged "plan of extermination of all European Jews" was carried out by the III Reich.

Germans Punished in World War II for Mistreating Jews

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Re: Germans Punished in World War II for Mistreating Jews

Postby JoFo » 8 years 4 months ago (Tue May 15, 2012 11:27 pm)

Very important stuff indeed! Just as mainstream holocaust historians point to a "convergence of evidence" to try to substantiate their story, Professor Faurisson is constructing a real body of evidence that points the other way. I hope others follow his lead.

I hadn't yet seen this video; thanks for posting this!

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Re: Germans Punished in World War II for Mistreating Jews

Postby Hektor » 8 years 4 months ago (Wed May 16, 2012 2:55 am)

Convergence of evidence? So what do the millions of documents and artefacts really tell us?!

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Re: Germans Punished in World War II for Mistreating Jews

Postby Zulu » 8 years 4 months ago (Wed May 16, 2012 8:33 am)

Zulu wrote:In a brilliant speech at the 14th IHR conference (2002), Pr. Faurisson exposes some facts that exterminationists could hardly explain if an alleged "plan of extermination of all European Jews" was carried out by the III Reich.

Germans Punished in World War II for Mistreating Jews

During his speech Pr. Faurisson mentions the Volume 42 of the IMT trial Proceedings as an interesting source to be exploited. I found a link to that Volume into the Avalon Project. It refers in particular to the Neave Report and the existence of 313,213 Affidavits written by high ranked Germans of the main III Reich organizations which were mostly discarded by the Court. There are important to mention in order to rebate the so often heard argument advanced by exterminationists: "No one denied". In fact, there are 313,213 Affidavits against the few "confessions" full of absurdities obtained under torture.
However, I am not sure if that link gives Volume 42 integrally.
Prosecution were entitled to comment or object. If the Commissioners decided that the affidavit was relevant, it was given a number and filed with the General Secretary. 1809 affidavits were submitted to the Commissioners. Of these about 90 were ordered to be fully translated. Summaries of the rest are to be found in the transcript of the Commission proceedings, or, in the case of the General Staff, in a special report prepared by Defense Counsel.

The total number of affidavits submitted to the Commission for each organization was:
Reich Cabinet........4
Political Leaders..100
SS......................123
SD.......................69
Gestapo...............92
SA.......................89
General Staff.....1,200

It is not known at the time of writing how many of these affidavits will actually be presented or discussed in open court.

As for the collective affidavits mentioned above, six separate reports were submitted by the Defense. The Reich Cabinet did not submit a report, having submitted only 3 affidavits to the Commissioners).

When the time limit for affidavits was reached on August 5th, the total number of collective affidavits submitted was 313,213. The total for each organization was as follows:
Political Leaders...155,000
SS.......................136,213
SD ........................7,000
Gestapo.................2,000
SA.......................10,000
General Staff..........3,000

6. In carrying out an administrative task of such magnitude, particularly in the bringing of witnesses to Nurnberg from all parts of Germany, the Commissioners were greatly assisted by the General Secretary's Office, Headquarters Command IMT, and 6850th Internal Security Detachment, U.S. Army, and by Military authorities in all the four zones of Occupation. The thanks of the Commission are also due to all those who contributed to giving as wide a selection of representative witnesses to the defense as was possible in the circumstances.
http://avalon.law.yale.edu/imt/naeve.asp

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Re: Germans Punished in World War II for Mistreating Jews

Postby Kladderadatsch » 8 years 4 months ago (Wed May 16, 2012 9:24 am)

Yes, the video is worth watching, and many thanks to Zulu for posting it.

Zulu wrote: However, I am not sure if that link gives Volume 42 integrally.


The published volumes of the Nuremberg trial records (English edition) are all available, complete in scanned pdf form, at

http://www.loc.gov/rr/frd/Military_Law/ ... rials.html.

The trial documents are divided into series, depending on which trial (or trials) they pertain to, so you have to know which series you're looking for; in the case of the volume referred to by Faurisson, it's in the Blue Series, which records the original 1946 IMT ("major war criminals") trial:

http://www.loc.gov/rr/frd/Military_Law/ ... inals.html

Volume 42 is here, with the section that Zulu quotes above appearing at the beginning of the "Col. Neave Report," pp. 10 ff:

http://www.loc.gov/rr/frd/Military_Law/ ... l-XLII.pdf
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Re: Germans Punished in World War II for Mistreating Jews

Postby Toshiro » 8 years 4 months ago (Wed May 16, 2012 12:12 pm)


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Re: Germans Punished in World War II for Mistreating Jews

Postby mincuo » 8 years 4 months ago (Wed May 16, 2012 1:33 pm)

Zulu wrote:In a brilliant speech at the 14th IHR conference (2002), Pr. Faurisson exposes some facts that exterminationists could hardly explain if an alleged "plan of extermination of all European Jews" was carried out by the III Reich.

Germans Punished in World War II for Mistreating Jews


Thank you very much Zulu. Your posts are always very interesting.
Beati monoculi in terra caecorum

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Re: Germans Punished in World War II for Mistreating Jews

Postby Zulu » 6 years 7 months ago (Sat Feb 15, 2014 4:33 pm)

Zulu wrote:In a brilliant speech at the 14th IHR conference (2002), Pr. Faurisson exposes some facts that exterminationists could hardly explain if an alleged "plan of extermination of all European Jews" was carried out by the III Reich.

Germans Punished in World War II for Mistreating Jews

The link is over but I gave another on the thread Robert Faurisson vs. Mikkel Andersson (2002)
2002, Robert Faurisson - 14th IHR-Conference - "Germans Punished in World War II for Mistreating Jews".
https://archive.org/details/2002-Robert ... Conference

This thread being more appropriated, I repeat here my request for the English text (or French) of that speech which gives the sources for the cases cited by Pr. Faurisson. IMO such topic constitutes an excellent material for the cause of revisionism.
Incidentally, I found some information in the interview Robert Faurisson gave in August 1979 to the Italian review of History "Storia Illustrata"
http://robertfaurisson.blogspot.com.es/ ... toria.html

I translate hereafter the interesting part
The " exterminationists " claim that in the summer of 1941 Hitler ordered to exterminate the Jews. But nobody has ever seen this order. There are , in opposite, either talks of Hitler or measures taken by his armies which imply that such an order couldn't have been given. On 24 July 1942, in a
limited circle, Hitler, noting that Jews have declared war against him through Chaim Weizmann, said that after the war he will destroy their cities
one after the other, he precises : "... if those junks of Jews don't decamp and if they don't emigrate to Madagascar or to some other Jewish national home [44] ".

For my part, I would like to know how one can reconcile this "free speech " with an extermination order given, once and for all, a year ago. Moreover, on July 1944, on the Eastern Front where the German soldier conducts a fierce fight against partisans ( Jewish or non-Jewish, Russian or communist, Ukrainian, etc. . ), the Army gives the most stringent orders that no German soldier participates in excesses against the civilian population, including Jews . Otherwise, he will face a military tribunal . [45]

Hitler called for a relentless struggle in the fight, especially against the partisans, including, if necessary, against women and children mingled with partisans or apparently accomplices of partisans. He did not shrink obviously (Allies either, for that matter) from the system of taking hostages. But he did not go beyond.

The day our media will decide to break certain taboos and devote to Allied "war crimes" a thousandth time they devote to "war crimes" of defeated, there will be surprises for naives . Hitler's "Crimes" will take then their fair proportions in a historical perspective. We are told a bit about Dresden and Katyn. I say that Dresden and Katyn are not that much compared with deportations that we inflicted on millions of Germans of Eastern minorities. It is true that they were not "deportations" but... "displacements". And I wonder if the champions of all categories of "war crimes" were not the British who delivered their Russian internees to the Soviets. [46]
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
[44] "Nach Beendigung des Krieges werde er [Hitler] sich rigoros auf den Standpunkt stellen, dass er Stadt für Stadt zusammenschlage, wenn nicht die Drecksjuden rauskämen und nach Madagaskar oder einem sonstigen jüdischen Nationalstaat abwanderten" (Henry Picker, Hitlers Tischgespräche im Führerhauptquartier 1941-1942, Percy Ernst Schramm [...], Stuttgart, 1963, p. 471).

[45] The texts and facts abound to prove that the German authorities prohibited and repressed these excesses, even when Jews could be the
victims. I would cite just one text and two facts. This is the text of General von Roques, dated on 29 July 1944, on the Russian front (document NOKW -1620 ). As for facts, they are reported in the document OKW -501 .

Here is the first : in the spring of 1944, in Budapest, a lieutenant kills a Jewess who wanted to denounce him because he had stolen, with some of his men, some of her possessions. A German military court sentenced him to death and he is executed by a firing squad, while several of his troops and NCOs are sentenced to long prison terms.

Here is the second fact : near Rostov (USSR), two soldiers were sentenced to death by a German military court ( executed? ) for killing the only Jewish inhabitant of a village. One founds these examples and many other facts of the same kind in the 42nd and final volume of the Proceedings of the main Nuremberg trial . Unfortunately, this Volume is virtually ignored by everyone. It is particularly ignored by judges who allow themselves to invoke "what was established at Nuremberg" but do not take enough care to read the documents yet established by winners having to judge the vanquished. The historian can even less afford this ease as he knows that these winners committed there two very serious
dishonesties :

1 - they have performed by themselves the sorting of documents without involving the defense;
2 - they proceeded to sort this sorting by publishing the 42 volumes without including many documents filed by the defense.

It must be well know that even today, almost 35 years after the war, the Allies keep secret a tremendous amount of material of which it can be expected that they have already withdrawn everything that, in their eyes, could overwhelm Germany.
Do we imagine the Himalaya of "war crimes" that, with such methods, one could make judged by an " International Military Tribunal " formed by defeated having to judge their conquerors? But to return to the issue of "excess" or "war crimes", I would suggest that the German army, and
especially the SS corps, was terribly hard in both combat and enforcement actions due to guerrilla warfare, but it has been a somehow less daunting for civilian non-combatants than other armies. The more disciplined and holden in hands is an army the less,
in principle, civilian populations have to fear excesses of all kinds. Under that point of view, partisan bands, whatever the sympathy that one could feel for the cause they are supposed to defend, are almost always without mercy for the civilian population.

[46] This issue was named "Operation Keelhaul". see The Hoax ... by Arthur R. Butz, p. 248-249 . The term " Keelhaul " is significant, this English verb
means " inflict the punishment of wet ship's dock to someone , or haul from side to side of the ship by passing him under the keel " .
Operation Keelhaul http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Keelhaul

http://robertfaurisson.blogspot.com.es/ ... toria.html

Unfortunately, I can't find anywhere documents NOKW -1620 and OKW -501.
The Volume 42th recommended by Pr. Faurisson can be downloaded at http://www.loc.gov/rr/frd/Military_Law/ ... l-XLII.pdf
Site http://www.loc.gov/rr/frd/Military_Law/ ... inals.html

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Re: Germans Punished in World War II for Mistreating Jews

Postby Zulu » 6 years 7 months ago (Sun Feb 16, 2014 12:22 pm)

Zulu wrote:Unfortunately, I can't find anywhere documents NOKW -1620 and OKW -501.
The Volume 42th recommended by Pr. Faurisson can be downloaded at http://www.loc.gov/rr/frd/Military_Law/ ... l-XLII.pdf
Site http://www.loc.gov/rr/frd/Military_Law/ ... inals.html

I found a reference OKW-501 in the volume 42. Unfortunately, I am not able to translate correctly from German as I am forced to make it through Google.
The case evoked by Pr. Faurisson and others are given with more detail in that affidavit by former Major General Otto Dessloch.
AFFIDAVIT GENERAL STAFF AND OKW-501

AFFIDAVIT, 18 JUNE 1946, BY FORMER MAJOR GENERAL OTTO DESSLOCH: DESPITE THE "BARBAROSSA DECREE", CRIMES BY GERMAN TROOPS AGAINST THE CIVILIAN POPULATION INCLUDING JEWS WERE JUDGED BY MILITARY LAW AND SEVERELY PUNISHED; SOME EXAMPLES FROM THE YEARS 1942, 1943. LET- TER, 16 JUNE 1946, FROM BRIGADIER GENERAL KARL HEINRICH SCHULZ TO DESSLOCH, CITING ADDITIONAL EXAMPLES
Source: NT_Vol-XLII p.238-242

Pdf of the Otto Dessloch Affidavit
NT_Vol-XLII OKW-501 p-238-242.pdf
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