The start of wild Holocaust 'survivor' tales

Read and post various viewpoints or search our large archives.

Moderator: Moderator

Forum rules
Be sure to read the Rules/guidelines before you post!
Scotsman
Member
Member
Posts: 60
Joined: Sun Jun 02, 2013 3:41 pm

The start of wild Holocaust 'survivor' tales

Postby Scotsman » 7 years 5 months ago (Sun Jun 02, 2013 3:50 pm)

Hello all, I've been a semi-follower of revisionism for a few years, but I have just recently read up on alot of the standard texts of Revisionism. One particular aspect that I have read repeatedly that has interested me is that many of the wild stories (read: tall tales) told by so-called survivors did not start to creep up until the 1970s and exploding in number in the 1990s; often in concert with pop culture. Denierbud's video on Auschwitz mentions for instance that infamous 'Sonderkommando' Dario Gabei did not tell his story until the 90s, and I have heard that claimed for many of the other key survivor stories as well.

Has any one tracked the chronology/growth of these stories? I just find it amusing that many of these people didn't bother to come forward until they realize they could make money/fame for telling the most outlandish stories they could make up.

blacksmith
Member
Member
Posts: 101
Joined: Fri May 24, 2013 1:06 pm

Re: The start of wild Holocaust 'survivor' tales

Postby blacksmith » 7 years 5 months ago (Sun Jun 02, 2013 8:11 pm)

Hi Scotsman,

The most successful inventor of holo stories is Ellie Wiesel. He is making a fortune even though he admitted many times that some of his stories are just that, but he hob-nobs with Presidents and Prime Ministers and pontificates on the subject of the holohoax while making a potful of money. I believe he gets about $25,000 per appearance. The idiot Oprah loves him and all the other stupid talk show hosts. If you want to make money right a story about the holocaust and you are assured of a best seller no matter how outlandish it sounds. These people are totally shameless even after they have been debunked. I even though of making some money for the revisionists I would write such a story.

Blacksmith

User avatar
Hannover
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 10182
Joined: Sun Nov 24, 2002 7:53 pm

Re: The start of wild Holocaust 'survivor' tales

Postby Hannover » 7 years 5 months ago (Sun Jun 02, 2013 9:23 pm)

Scotsman:
While not a chronological listing, these are just a few examples of the absurd impossibilities that so called "eyewitnesses" claim are fact.

Remember, you will go to jail in many countries if your question any of these.

Welcome to The CODOH Revisionist Forum.

- Hannover

Hannover wrote:From a previous post of mine. And these people are considered legitimate by the 'holocaust' Industry.

- Hannover

Let's look at the specifics of so called 'eyewitnesses', here are just a few examples.

I challenge anyone to post what they believe to be credible eyewitness statements on the alleged gas chambers for discussion here.

- "eyewitness" Wiernik claimed:
1200 people fit into a 7 X 7 m gas chamber, bodies of women were used for kindling, bodies burned on their own once lit, he saw a naked Jewish girl jump a 3m (9 ft.) high fence & shoot two guards, that 900,000 Jews were gassed..buried..exhumed..cremated & all traces disappeared, a Russian diesel tank engine was used for gassings.
Wiernik also claimed he saw a naked Jewish girl leap over a three-meter (9 ft.) high barbed wire fence, wrench the rifle out of the hands of a pursuing guard, shoot two other guards before she was overpowered.

- in court, 3/46, Charles Bendel said groups of 1000 Jews where killed with Zyklon-B in a room measuring 10 meters long by 4 meters wide by 1.6 meters high. When asked, how 1000 people can possibly fit in to a room of 64 square meters, he answered, with 'the German method'.

- Bendel testified that 1 million were gassed at Birkenau from January 1, 1944 to Jan 18, 1945. The latest number (which has changed constantly), now says 1.25 million were gassed for the entire duration of the war. They also say the alleged gassings ceased 11/44. Once again, they can't keep their lies straight

- An "eyewitness" stated that the alleged poison gas had a delayed action, it allowed the victims to leave the gas chambers and walk to the mass graves by themselves - from: Repts. of the Polish Underground, Archiv der Polnischen Vereinigten Arbeiterpartei, 202/III,v.7,pp.120f.,quoted in: P. Longerich, op. cit.(note 271), p. 438.

- So called 'eyewitness' Daniel Bennahmias claimed the alleged gas chambers walls were PAINTED after each gassing. Well, even if true, that would simply 'lock in' the HCN in the mortar and concrete. There is no significant cyanide residue to be found which would indicate mass gassings as alleged. He also claims that he was one of the alleged 'sonderkommandos'; they were supposedly in charge of moving bodies from the alleged gas chambers. The story goes that all sonderkommandos were murdered in order to silence them.
Peculiar, Daniel Bennahmias was not killed and was in fact given a choice of staying in Auschwitz to await the 'liberating' Soviets, or to leave with the SS in retreat; he chose to go with the SS.

- According to Alexander Pechersky, gassings at Sobibor took place via a black heavy substance which exited in spirals from holes in the roof. Then the floor of the gas chamber opened up, and the bodies fell directly into wagons placed in the basement.

- Filip Mueller, whose laughable beststeller "Sonderbehandlung" Raul Hilberg quotes no less than 20 times as a source in his standard work about the "Holocaust" - described how he ate cake in a cyanide-saturated gas chamber

- Former inmate, Moshe Peer, recalled a miraculous escape from death as an eleven-year-old in the camp. In a 1993 interview with a Canadian newspaper, the French-born Peer claimed that he "was sent to the camp gas chamber at least six times...maybe children resist better, I don't know." Gazette, Montreal, Canada, August 5, 1993

- The vacuum chamber...former Treblinka prisoner Samuel Rajzman testified that during the time he was in Treblinka, Jews were "suffocated to death" there with a machine that pumped air out of death chambers. {Rajzman text in: Yuri Suhl, ed., They Fought Back (New York: 1967), p. 130.}

- 'eyewitness' Arnold Friedman's stated that he (and four others at the same time) 'survived' by breathing through a keyhole in the 'gas chamber' door at FLOSSENBERG.

- Ada Bimko (now Hadassah Rosensaft of the Holocaust Memorial Museum, Washington DC): she testified to being shown by an SS officer the huge cylinders of gas in a room above the gas chamber!

- Auschwitz inmate, Regina Bialek stated: I was made to undress and taken by lorry to a gas chamber. There were seven gas chambers at Auschwitz. This particular one was underground and the lorry was able to run down the slope and straight into the chamber. Here we were tipped unceremoniously on the floor. The room was about 12 yards square and small lights on the wall dimly illuminated it. When the room was full a hissing sound was heard coming from the centre point on the floor and gas came into the room. After what seemed about ten minutes some of the victims began to bite their hands and foam at the mouth, and blood issued from their ears, eyes and mouth, and their faces went blue. I suffered from all these symptoms, together with a tight feeling at the throat. I was half conscious when my number was called out by Dr. Mengele and I was led from the chamber. I attribute my escape to the fact that the daughter of a friend of mine who was an Aryan and a doctor at Auschwitz had seen me being transported to the chamber and had told her mother, who immediately appealed to Dr. Mengele.

- In the book, 'Lest We Forget', it describes how Jews were steamed to death, and provides a diagram showing the location of the purported boiler room that produced the live steam. - 'Lest We Forget', World Jewish Congress (New York: 1943), pp.4, 6-7.

- The Polish govt. "conclusively proved" the Germans operated steam death chambers. They carried out "an on site, expert examination of the steam chambers," submitting an "expert report" to the Nuremberg Tribunal.- Nuremberg Trial Document 3311-PS, IMT "blue series"/1947-1949), vol.32, pp.152-158

- Here's more real 'evidence' - Killing in vacuum chamber, with steam, or chlorine gas -----from: W. Grossmann, Die Hölle von Treblinka, Verlag für fremdsprachige Literatur, Moscow 1947; The Black Book of Polish Jewry, Roy Publishers, New York 1943.

- "There was a blue haze after gassing with hydrocyanic acid" (which is colorless) - R. Böck, Frankfurt Public Prosecutor's Office, Ref. 4 Js 444/59, pp. 6881f.

- “In retreat the stationary gas chambers in the eastern part of the camp were restructured, even little turrets and other architectural embellishments were added so that they would look like innocent garages." - ‘The Factory of Death at Auschwitz’ Boris Polevoi, Pravda, 1945

- Communist Jew, Bruno Baum, himself a member of the 'partisans', boasted after the war: "The entire propaganda which started abroad, was made by us with the help of our Polish mates." - Bruno Baum, »Wir funken aus der Hölle« in Deutsche Volkszeitung - Zentralorgan der KPD, Berlin 31.7.1945.; cf. B. Baum

- Elan Steinberg, Executive Director of the World Jewish Congress when discussing accusations of atrocities against Germans:
"The problem is, when you investigate something as serious as this, you can not rely on eyewitnesses who, even with the best of intentions, with the best of intentions, can give you misleading information".

- David Greenburg, reviewing the memoirs of John Toland in the NY Times Book Review- 10-19-97:
"It is not necessary to wonder how, technically, such mass murder was possible. It was technically possible because it took place."
"It is fitting for us to simply repeat this truth: there is not and cannot be any debate on the existence of the gas chambers."

- "…It is not necessary to ask oneself how, technically, such a mass murder was possible. It was technically possible since it took place. Such is the point of departure required of any historical enquiry on the subject. This truth obliges us to state quite simply: there is not, there cannot be, any debate on the existence of the gas chambers." - from a declaration, published in Le Monde, feb 21, 1979. Written by Pierre Vidal-Naquet and Léon Poliakov. And signed by 34 "historians"

And so it goes with each and every 'eyewitness' to alleged gassings and their supporters. Their stories are patently absurd; but if you don't believe them you could go to jail.

Add to all this, a real classic:

"These Holocaust deniers are very slick people. They justify everything they say with facts and figures."

- Steven Some, Chairman of the New Jersey Commission on Holocaust Education, Newark Star-Ledger, 23 Oct. 1996, p 15.
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

User avatar
Hannover
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 10182
Joined: Sun Nov 24, 2002 7:53 pm

Re: The start of wild Holocaust 'survivor' tales

Postby Hannover » 7 years 5 months ago (Sun Jun 02, 2013 9:33 pm)

Scotsman:

Also, I believe Samuel Crowell, in his meticulous work on 'gas chambers', made a chronological listing, at least in terms of the specific & laughable 'eyewitness / survivor' gassings claims. Could be a good place to start.
see here:
http://www.vho.org/aaargh/fran/livres5/ ... holmes.pdf

Also, the classic & unrefuted Rudolf Report:
http://www.vho.org/GB/Books/trr/

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

Scotsman
Member
Member
Posts: 60
Joined: Sun Jun 02, 2013 3:41 pm

Re: The start of wild Holocaust 'survivor' tales

Postby Scotsman » 7 years 5 months ago (Sun Jun 02, 2013 11:33 pm)

Hannover wrote:Scotsman:

Also, I believe Samuel Crowell, in his meticulous work on 'gas chambers', made a chronological listing, at least in terms of the specific & laughable 'eyewitness / survivor' gassings claims. Could be a good place to start.
see here:
http://www.vho.org/aaargh/fran/livres5/ ... holmes.pdf

Also, the classic & unrefuted Rudolf Report:
http://www.vho.org/GB/Books/trr/

- Hannover



Thank you. The first was along the lines of what I was hoping to see. I am still somewhat new to this, so I hope I am not beating a dead horse with these questions.

Let me be more specific, though. I was hoping to see the chronology of the so called Sonderkommando stories, which if i understand it, are also a later claim (from the 60s?).

EtienneSC
Valued contributor
Valued contributor
Posts: 587
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2011 2:27 pm

Re: The start of wild Holocaust 'survivor' tales

Postby EtienneSC » 7 years 5 months ago (Mon Jun 03, 2013 2:33 am)

There are chronologies of significant stories relating to individual camps in Carlo Mattogno's books on the individual camps. These include the Sonderkommando stories (Philip Mueller and a few others). However, I don't know of any history of the numbers of survivor stories as such. It would depend who was a "survivor" and what counted as a "survivor story" for a start. I would imagine that the numbers would leap in the 1990s when Steven Spielberg's foundation began collecting stories in the wake of Schindler's List. There was also a book on early testimonies, not from a revisionist standpoint, within the last few years. I imagine Yad Vashem and other institutions keep records of the provenance of their document collections.

User avatar
borjastick
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 2707
Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2011 5:52 am
Location: Europe

Re: The start of wild Holocaust 'survivor' tales

Postby borjastick » 7 years 5 months ago (Mon Jun 03, 2013 8:43 am)

Good question Scotsman. Like you I don't recall when they first started to 'come out' with their stories but it seems to have been late 80s or into the 90s when it was common knowledge that there were plenty of survivors. Perhaps too many in terms of the standard narrative that there was a mass murder plan being enacted.

This little quote below is interesting. It comes from a website called The holocaust: A Tragic legacy. Several stories are told by survivors. This excerpt if by Rudy. He was moved around the camp system over the period including Auschwitz, Dachau, Birkenau. He also survived the death march er because he couldn't walk!! What is clear is that he was in the camps and yet knew nothing about the gas chambers until he was told afterwards, Strange that isn't it?

At Auschwitz people died of huger because they had come to the camps already weakened. The people who had died were thrown or stacked at the very end of the barracks row underneath the watchtower. They were stacked like cordwood, naked, without dignity. Nobody to close their eyes. They were stacked four feet high. Every twenty-four hours a cart came. People were simply grabbed by the hand and foot and tossed on there. We knew they were taken to the crematory to be incinerated, but we still had no knowledge of the gas chambers and that people were killed or gassed in such numbers as they were.
'Of the four million Jews under Nazi control in WW2, six million died and alas only five million survived.'

'We don't need evidence, we have survivors' - israeli politician

User avatar
hermod
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 2076
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 10:52 am

Re: The start of wild Holocaust 'survivor' tales

Postby hermod » 7 years 5 months ago (Tue Jun 04, 2013 10:15 pm)

Scotsman wrote:many of the wild stories (read: tall tales) told by so-called survivors did not start to creep up until the 1970s and exploding in number in the 1990s


"The main battlefield now is the theater of opinion in the United States." - Chaim Herzog (sixth President of Israel), 1975.

"if the Holocaust can be shown to be a "Zionist myth", the strongest of all weapons in Israel’s propaganda armoury collapses." - Pr W. D. Rubinstein, 1979.
"But, however the world pretends to divide itself, there are ony two divisions in the world to-day - human beings and Germans. – Rudyard Kipling, The Morning Post (London), June 22, 1915

User avatar
Kingfisher
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 1673
Joined: Sat Jan 30, 2010 4:55 pm

Re: The start of wild Holocaust 'survivor' tales

Postby Kingfisher » 7 years 5 months ago (Wed Jun 05, 2013 4:08 am)

Scotsman,

Just like to add that The Gas Chamber of Sherlock Holmes recommended above is a very readable general introduction to Revisionism, which takes a moderate position, investigating what might have led to the stories of gas chambers.

Thames Darwin
Valued contributor
Valued contributor
Posts: 193
Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2013 12:55 pm

Re: The start of wild Holocaust 'survivor' tales

Postby Thames Darwin » 7 years 5 months ago (Wed Jun 05, 2013 7:34 pm)

Crowell's work is very erudite, but I think he gilds the lily a bit too much. We should call a spade a spade. Notions that gas chambers were anything but a deliberate lie work against us, not for us.

User avatar
Kingfisher
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 1673
Joined: Sat Jan 30, 2010 4:55 pm

Re: The start of wild Holocaust 'survivor' tales

Postby Kingfisher » 7 years 5 months ago (Wed Jun 05, 2013 10:03 pm)

Thames Darwin wrote:Notions that gas chambers were anything but a deliberate lie work against us, not for us.

I don't see why. In any case it was almost certainly a mixture of rumour and propaganda feeding each other. Crowell gives a very good account of how the rumours could have started and why the propaganda was believable.

Carto's Cutlass Supreme
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 2449
Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 1:42 am
Location: Northern California

Re: The start of wild Holocaust 'survivor' tales

Postby Carto's Cutlass Supreme » 7 years 5 months ago (Wed Jun 05, 2013 11:28 pm)

To the original poster:

The stories that crept up in the 1990's are so prevalent that the people telling them are not even famous. Rather they go to high schools and tell their stories at student assemblies. One famous one, Irene Zisblatt who didn't tell her story till the 90's is known, but on a regional level there's a whole lot of them. Usually their stories are cliché. Example: At a website for Rochester New York holocaust survivors who will come speak at schools, I saw video of a guy saying that to escape death he had to hide in the outhouse. But that's out of Schindler's List.

Here is just one regional place, Philadelphia. And look how many available speakers:

Erica Herz van Adelsberg
Ronnie Breslow
Larry Buchsbaum
Dr. George Frank
Ralph Franklin
Marius Gherovici
Paul Gidaly
Danny Goldsmith
Ernie Gross
Ruth Hartz
Gunter Hauer
Michael Herskovitz
Kurt Herman
Joseph Kahn
Ruthie Kessler
Trudy Klein Gompers
Ilse Lindemeyer
Sid Moszer
Anneliese Nossbaum
Belle Lewkowiez-Ostroff
Manya Frydman Perel
Alex Redner
Charles Rojer
Yaakov Riz*
Hans Salomon*
Frieda Tabak
Henry Tengood
David Tuck
Arnold Vanderhorst
Klara Vinokur
Lili Wishnefsky
Stella Yollin
Michael Zal*
Itka Zygmuntowicz
Liberators

Dr. Leon Bass
Anthony Greco
Paul Isakoff
Anthony Morrone
Art Stern
Harry Zaslow
Resistors

Fernande Davis

SOURCE:
http://www.holocaustawarenessmuseum.org ... t/speakers

User avatar
Hektor
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 3621
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2006 7:59 am

Re: The start of wild Holocaust 'survivor' tales

Postby Hektor » 7 years 5 months ago (Thu Jun 06, 2013 11:41 am)

I randomly picked two "survivor" bios and came across the following:
After the war, Ilse and Herbert worked as interpreters for the U.S. Army for three years. She returned to Germany and discovered that her parents were killed on their way to Minsk, Russia. Ilse and Herbert then moved to Philadelphia in 1948 and had two children.
http://www.holocaustawarenessmuseum.org/node/68

Now that raises some serious questions.....

Jerzy Ulicki-Rek
Valued contributor
Valued contributor
Posts: 526
Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2007 10:48 pm

Re: The start of wild Holocaust 'survivor' tales

Postby Jerzy Ulicki-Rek » 7 years 5 months ago (Fri Jun 07, 2013 5:47 am)

"- The Polish govt. "conclusively proved" the Germans operated steam death chambers. They carried out "an on site, expert examination of the steam chambers," submitting an "expert report" to the Nuremberg Tribunal.- Nuremberg Trial Document 3311-PS, IMT "blue series"/1947-1949), vol.32, pp.152-158"

Correction:

- The "Polish" govt. "conclusively proved" the Germans operated steam death chambers. They carried out "an on site, expert examination of the steam chambers," submitting an "expert report" to the Nuremberg Tribunal.- Nuremberg Trial Document 3311-PS, IMT "blue series"/1947-1949), vol.32, pp.152-158"

One of those "Polish" in government was a jewish butcher by the name: Skulbaszewski.
Translated : School bus + very Polish "ski' on the end :)

The rest of this "Polish" government looked very similar :)

Jerzy

Jerzy

User avatar
hermod
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 2076
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 10:52 am

Re: The start of wild Holocaust 'survivor' tales

Postby hermod » 7 years 5 months ago (Sat Jun 08, 2013 8:50 pm)

As far as the gassing hoax is concerned, the start of wild 'Holocaust survivor' tales is...March 1916. At that time the 'Holocaust survivors' were called "Serbian refugees". During WW1 Allied propaganda claimed that the Austrians and the Bulgarians (Germany's allies) had killed 700,000 men, women and children in Serbia's churches with asphyxiating gas. Some "Serbian refugees" had even 'reported' that they had seen some Germans distribute among the Bulgarians machines producing gas and instruct them in the use of those gassing machines.

http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article ... suffocated
"But, however the world pretends to divide itself, there are ony two divisions in the world to-day - human beings and Germans. – Rudyard Kipling, The Morning Post (London), June 22, 1915


Return to “'Holocaust' Debate / Controversies / Comments / News”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Daniel Briske, katana and 10 guests