Irving tells the story .... day by day .... takes him about 30 min. to get to it ....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcBVkzpYznM
Who started bombing civilians first:Germany or Great Britain
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Re: Who started bombing civilians first:Germany or Great Britain
The account associated with the Irving vid above has been terminated by YouTube, however it can still be seen here ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dI1Z8bwImA0
This is an extraordinary vid as Irving gives a detailed and documented account of the beginning of the terror bombing on the orders of Churchill.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dI1Z8bwImA0
This is an extraordinary vid as Irving gives a detailed and documented account of the beginning of the terror bombing on the orders of Churchill.
Re: Who started bombing civilians first:Germany or Great Britain
Operation Gomorrah was the code name the RAF gave to its attack on the city of Hamburg in 1943. They used incendiaries to create firestorms over the city. Ian Greenhalgh from Veterans Today relates - http://www.veteranstoday.com/2018/08/02 ... -nagasaki/
There are 2 sides to every story - always listen or read both points of view and make up your own mind. Don't let others do your thinking for you.
Re: Who started bombing civilians first:Germany or Great Britain
Bombing Vindicated by J M Spaight first published in 1944 where he admits the RAF was deliberately targeting civilians. There is a review here - https://inconvenienthistory.com/7/1/3358
The whole book is online here - https://codoh.com/library/document/5782/
The whole book is online here - https://codoh.com/library/document/5782/
There are 2 sides to every story - always listen or read both points of view and make up your own mind. Don't let others do your thinking for you.
The Allied bombing of German cities in World War II was unjustifiable
Good video debate:
The Allied bombing of German cities in World War II was unjustifiable
mirror: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCOtnyUoG2w
Filmed at the Royal Institute of British Architects
25 October 2012
No one doubts the bravery of the thousands of men who flew and died in Bomber Command. The death rate was an appalling 44%. And yet until the opening of a monument in Green Park this year they have received no official recognition, with many historians claiming that the offensive was immoral and unjustified. How can it be right, they argue, for the Allies to have deliberately targeted German cities causing the death of hundreds of thousands of civilians? Even on a strategic level the offensive failed to bring about the collapse of civilian morale that was its intention.
Others, however, maintain that the attacks made a decisive contribution to the Allied victory. Vast numbers of German soldiers and planes were diverted from the eastern and western fronts, while Allied bombing attacks virtually destroyed the German air force, clearing the way for the invasion of the continent.
The Allied bombing of German cities in World War II was unjustifiable
mirror: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCOtnyUoG2w
Filmed at the Royal Institute of British Architects
25 October 2012
No one doubts the bravery of the thousands of men who flew and died in Bomber Command. The death rate was an appalling 44%. And yet until the opening of a monument in Green Park this year they have received no official recognition, with many historians claiming that the offensive was immoral and unjustified. How can it be right, they argue, for the Allies to have deliberately targeted German cities causing the death of hundreds of thousands of civilians? Even on a strategic level the offensive failed to bring about the collapse of civilian morale that was its intention.
Others, however, maintain that the attacks made a decisive contribution to the Allied victory. Vast numbers of German soldiers and planes were diverted from the eastern and western fronts, while Allied bombing attacks virtually destroyed the German air force, clearing the way for the invasion of the continent.
"There is a principal which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments, and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance -- that principal is contempt prior to investigation."
-- Herbert Spencer
-- Herbert Spencer
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forasanerworld
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Re: Who started bombing civilians first:Germany or Great Britain
"bombing civilians". As with "The Holocaust" you first need, in my opinion, to define critically what is meant.
My starting point would be to define what was the role of the Luftwaffe and what it was not. It most emphatically never was a strategic bombing force in it's own independent function, it never had a meaningful four engine long range bomber and the Kg crews must have been very glad that the He 177 didn't see wider service, the maximum payload was 8 x 250 Kgs exceeding the rather rare He 177 2 x 1800.
By contrast the Lancaster could carry up to 10000 Kgs (Grand Slam) and was a 1940s design, the He 111 was then obsolete emanating from 1935. In fact the Luftwaffe's most effective "bomber" was probably the Ju 87 Stukka, the Luftwaffe was a tactical force, effectively long range artillery and designed to be followed up by the Wehrmacht, which of course it couldn't do over The Channel.
My starting point would be to define what was the role of the Luftwaffe and what it was not. It most emphatically never was a strategic bombing force in it's own independent function, it never had a meaningful four engine long range bomber and the Kg crews must have been very glad that the He 177 didn't see wider service, the maximum payload was 8 x 250 Kgs exceeding the rather rare He 177 2 x 1800.
By contrast the Lancaster could carry up to 10000 Kgs (Grand Slam) and was a 1940s design, the He 111 was then obsolete emanating from 1935. In fact the Luftwaffe's most effective "bomber" was probably the Ju 87 Stukka, the Luftwaffe was a tactical force, effectively long range artillery and designed to be followed up by the Wehrmacht, which of course it couldn't do over The Channel.
Re: Who started bombing civilians first:Germany or Great Britain
Excellent article by Justice4Germans:
Who Started the Bombing of Cities and Targeting of Civilians in World War II?
https://archive.is/IpRwW
It is widely believed to this day that the Germans instigated the aerial bombing campaign against European and British cities, and thus “got what they deserved” in kind. Often cited are the German bombings of Warsaw and Rotterdam. These two instances of bombings are not in dispute, however, the context must be considered. The details are seldom discussed, and hence, little known. The rules of warfare must also be considered. The deliberate targeting of civilians was indeed a “war crime”. The Hague conventions tolerated the bombing of cities IF they were under military occupation (ie “defended”), which was the case with both Warsaw or Rotterdam.
For those who read German:
(PDF) ERICH KERN. Verbrechen am deutschen Volk. Eine Dokumentation alliierter Grausamkeiten. 1964. VERLAG K. W. SCHÜTZ • GÖTTINGEN
http://web.archive.org/web/201907072155 ... n_volk.pdf
Also suggested:
A MOST UNCIVILIZED MEANS OF WARFARE – Genocidal British Bombing Policy During World War II
https://archive.is/wM62X
Who Started the Bombing of Cities and Targeting of Civilians in World War II?
https://archive.is/IpRwW
It is widely believed to this day that the Germans instigated the aerial bombing campaign against European and British cities, and thus “got what they deserved” in kind. Often cited are the German bombings of Warsaw and Rotterdam. These two instances of bombings are not in dispute, however, the context must be considered. The details are seldom discussed, and hence, little known. The rules of warfare must also be considered. The deliberate targeting of civilians was indeed a “war crime”. The Hague conventions tolerated the bombing of cities IF they were under military occupation (ie “defended”), which was the case with both Warsaw or Rotterdam.
For those who read German:
(PDF) ERICH KERN. Verbrechen am deutschen Volk. Eine Dokumentation alliierter Grausamkeiten. 1964. VERLAG K. W. SCHÜTZ • GÖTTINGEN
http://web.archive.org/web/201907072155 ... n_volk.pdf
Also suggested:
A MOST UNCIVILIZED MEANS OF WARFARE – Genocidal British Bombing Policy During World War II
https://archive.is/wM62X
"There is a principal which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments, and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance -- that principal is contempt prior to investigation."
-- Herbert Spencer
-- Herbert Spencer
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