Sonderkommando photograph - so what if it's real?

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Callahan
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Sonderkommando photograph - so what if it's real?

Postby Callahan » 3 years 3 months ago (Thu Dec 26, 2013 7:01 am)

12651883439074209207.jpg


This photograph has been mentioned in a recent thread:
Train crash site:Dresden,Ohio 1912? / sonderkommandos

Laughably "retouched" versions have fueled reasonable suspicion of forgery:
WalendyA-krema3.jpg


Looking a little deeper into the "official" history of this photograph, we find some interesting details about it's supposed roots:

http://www.vaniercollege.qc.ca/vcta/VCTA_Apr05.pdf
Several members of the Sonderkommando squads of mainly Jewish prisoners working in the crematoria who were responsible for emptying the gas chambers and burning the corpses, “beginning with those of its predecessors,” were desperate “to record the crimes committed by the Germans in the Auschwitz gas chambers.” The evidence of photographs would warn others to resist getting on the trains and attract the attention of the Allied forces.

[...]

In a 1987 interview, former Spanish Freedom fighter and anti-Fascist David Szmulewski claimed that prisoners damaged the roof of the crematorium to create a need for a repair team. “Working as a roofer, Szmulewski had more access and freedom to move around the camp without being suspected by the guards.” He lowered the camera, hidden in a false bottom of a bucket, into the crematorium to members of the Sonderkommando below and then kept watch from the roof. Alter Fajnzylberg, from France and also a Spanish Civil War veteran, testified in 1985 that four people were present: he and brothers Szlomo (Szlojme) and Josek (Abram) Dragon, at Auschwitz since Dec 1942, guarded and determined the moment when Alberto “Alex” Errera, a Jew from Greece, “quickly took out his camera and pointed it toward a heap of burning bodies and pressed the shutter.” Then the photographer hid between some trees in the courtyard and another picture was taken as the women and men undressed in front of the trees. Alex “tried to escape shortly after the event and was shot at the beginning of September 1944.”

[...]

“The exposed film was taken back to the main camp where Helena Szpak-Daton, who worked in the SS canteen, concealed it in a toothpaste tube and smuggled it out of the camp” on September 7, 1944. A secret message, addressed to the PPS (Polish Socialist Party) Brzeszcze Group leadership, was handwritten in Polish by Józef Cyrankiewicz and Stanislaw Klodzinki (active in the left-oriented Polish resistance movement at Auschwitz):

"We are sending you pictures from Birkenau, from a gas-
sing operation. The picture shows one of the pyres in the open
air, on which corpses are burned, when the crematorium cannot
keep up with the burning. In front of the pyre lie corpses, wait-
ing to be thrown on the pyre. The other picture shows one of the
places in the little woods, where people undress supposedly for a
shower, and then go to the gas. Send the enclosed pictures
immediately to “Tell.” The pictures can be enlarged and, we feel,
be sent further on."

“Tell” was the pseudonym of Teresa Lasocka-Estreicher of the PWOK (Home Army unit in Cracow), “an active member of the Crakow underground organization Assistance for Concentration Camp Prisoners." In May 1944, the Sonderkommando had been forced to dig huge pits, since the Crematorium was not efficient enough. “The pictures reached Cracow, ”but not the Polish government-in-exile in London. When they were printed, by whom, or whether in Brzeszcze (7 miles from Auschwitz) or in Crakow, is not certain. Apparently, the negatives never left Lasocka’s possession. Prints were, however, used in the 1947 Krakow trial of the Main Commission for Investigation of Nazi Crimes in Poland against “40 major Auschwitz criminals.” The original negatives have been lost; the Auschwitz-Birkenau State Museum has two sets of contact prints, those donated in the 1960s by Wladyslaw Pytlik, a member of the Brzeszcze resistance, and the originals in 1985 by his wife, Danuta Pytlik.


So, we have no original negatives of these photographs and no way of telling when they were actually taken or, more importantly, why they were taken. Was it:

A) ...to show the legitimate aftermath of an evil Nazi 'gassing' procedure?
- or -
B) ...so that 'surviving Sonderkommando' could falsely portray one of these rare outdoor cremations as a sinister 'extermination' cover-up?

The above-referenced article acknowledges an uncertainty about how a camera might have been brought into Auschwitz. What if it were possible to bring a camera to the crematoria simply because Germans felt they had nothing to hide? Perhaps, this photographer remained hidden to not risk being exposed as a propagandist.

The notoriously inconsistent testimony of the 'Sonderkommando' gang has been a fundamental component to the 'extermination' tale and it seems probable that this crew of spiteful liars was well-into developing a 'gassing' narrative by the time this photograph was taken. While working together in the camps, they realized it'd be simple to take a snapshot from an obviously hidden perspective during a short period in time where the crematoria was not functioning (cremations always had to take place for sanitation purposes during a typhus epidemic that was killing hundreds at a time).

This simple photograph, with a provided false context, would add a much-needed visual component to the sadistic storyline.



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Re: Sonderkommando photograph - so what if it's real?

Postby Hannover » 3 years 3 months ago (Thu Dec 26, 2013 10:47 am)

'So what if it's real?' is irrelevant. It's a faked image, simple as that. The blow-up reveals a laughable sea of spaghetti people that the forger hoped no one would catch. Making false claims about it cannot change the fact that it's bogus, ergo the claims are provided in an attempt distract the viewer and con them into 'believing' inspite of the obvious absurdity, a typical 'holocaust' thing.
Image
Udo Walendy has covered this photo and many other classic fakes.

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Re: Sonderkommando photograph - so what if it's real?

Postby borjastick » 3 years 3 months ago (Thu Dec 26, 2013 11:13 am)

Forgive my ignorance on this picture but is there any absolute proof this was even taken in Auschwitz or any concentration camp during the war? What's the real provenance to this shot?

You have to question these things, why could they not show these human remains after the war when the Russians 'liberated' the camp. Plus when you factor in the old water table situation there wasn't much hope of a successful cremation pit in the camp, despite what Elie Wiesel says.
'Of the four million Jews under Nazi control in WW2, six million died and alas only five million survived.'

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Re: Sonderkommando photograph - so what if it's real?

Postby Landulf » 3 years 3 months ago (Thu Dec 26, 2013 2:19 pm)

The russians took it all (documents etc..) when they "liberated" Birkenau. If they can't show anything today from that event, then there is nothing to say. According to the first photos taken by russian soldiers, the inmates of Birkenau looks very healthy, due to the circumstances.

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Re: Sonderkommando photograph - so what if it's real?

Postby Callahan » 3 years 3 months ago (Sun Dec 29, 2013 4:47 am)

Hannover, it is claimed that versions of the photo that have clearly been altered were inexplicably "retouched" from this (supposed) original which seems slightly more realistic, anatomically speaking, than the popular version:

nospagl.jpg


nospag.jpg


'Hans' posted a thread about it on the "Holocaust Controversies" hate-blog:

http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot. ... n-air.html

I think some things to look at are:

1) Even if this version of the photograph were real, we would have no idea of when it was taken and the actual context of what is being witnessed. Was it overflow from 'gassing' victims? Or was it due to a single day where extra cremations might have been necessary, for any reason?

2) Weren't 'gassing' victims supposed to be predominantly comprised of the elderly, children, infants, and disabled? Every visible limb in this photograph appears to be the approximate size and shape of that of a reasonably healthy adult (at the very least, "fit for work"); possibly those who died over a matter of days or weeks due to typhus.

Of course, since the original negatives have mysteriously vanished, we have no idea where/when/how this image was fabricated/taken/edited. All we know is that multiple versions exist, which says a lot in itself.

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Re: Sonderkommando photograph - so what if it's real?

Postby Hannover » 3 years 3 months ago (Sun Dec 29, 2013 10:57 am)

Callahan wrote:Hannover, it is claimed that versions of the photo that have clearly been altered were inexplicably "retouched" from this (supposed) original which seems slightly more realistic, anatomically speaking, than the popular version:

nospagl.jpg


nospag.jpg


'Hans' posted a thread about it on the "Holocaust Controversies" hate-blog:

http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot. ... n-air.html

I think some things to look at are:

1) Even if this version of the photograph were real, we would have no idea of when it was taken and the actual context of what is being witnessed. Was it overflow from 'gassing' victims? Or was it due to a single day where extra cremations might have been necessary, for any reason?

2) Weren't 'gassing' victims supposed to be predominantly comprised of the elderly, children, infants, and disabled? Every visible limb in this photograph appears to be the approximate size and shape of that of a reasonably healthy adult (at the very least, "fit for work"); possibly those who died over a matter of days or weeks due to typhus.

Of course, since the original negatives have mysteriously vanished, we have no idea where/when/how this image was fabricated/taken/edited. All we know is that multiple versions exist, which says a lot in itself.
Clearly the same faked 'gassed people' in all the versions. IOW, they all appear like laughable spaghetti people regardless of contrast & shading.
Can this 'Hans' show us any difference in body anatomies in the various images? Nope.
'Hans' points out that 'holocaust' Industry advocates have altered the image. Another shot into foot.
No negative? But of course.
And according to the story line there were unknowing Jews lined up outside to be gassed next, and I guess seeing these alleged dead Jews supposedly dragged from the impossible 'gas chambers' would not have caused concern in the least. It's all so ludicrous.
'Hans' says of one version, as if it carries weight; "It is preserved in the archives of the Auschwitz State Museum". Oh please, also 'preserved' at Auschwitz is a "reconstructed / rebuilt " fake 'gas chamber'.
And do ask 'Hans' how the 'gas chambers' supposedly worked.

For everyone interested, this 'Hans' has been demolished repeatedly at this forum. If you think any of his arguments merit debate then let's see what you have to say, right here, right now.

I agree that in the larger scheme of things this faked image means little, but it's enjoyable shooting down all the false claims made by Jewish supremacists.

The tide is turning.

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If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: Sonderkommando photograph - so what if it's real?

Postby hermod » 3 years 3 months ago (Mon Dec 30, 2013 10:09 am)

If that photograph was real, the Holocaust believers should explain us why those alleged Sonderkommandos were not dressed as camp inmates. Was that to make their disappearance among the civilian population easier if they managed to escape (so that there were more chances they could tell their big secret to the world)? :roll:

If that photograph was real, the Holocaust believers should also explain us why the photographer didn't get that picture out of the camp before the end of WW2 in order to try to stop the mass slaughter allegedly taking place there? That's was possible. Thousands of inmates escaped and were liberated from Auschwitz-Birkenau during WW2. There were resistance networks in and out of the camp (Enrique Aynat wrote a wonderful article about that) communicating with each others, bringing food, medications and other things in the camp, etc. So why wait until everybody was allegedly dead to show that picture?
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Re: Sonderkommando photograph - so what if it's real?

Postby TheBlackRabbitofInlé » 3 years 3 months ago (Mon Dec 30, 2013 4:53 pm)

There's actually two photographs.

Image
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 39#p187039

Image

Above's another version of one found on Wikipedia.
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File: ... ce_281.jpg

What on Earth's that on the left side of the photo?

Seems as though you have to crop the photo to make it look as though that's a genuine doorway.
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... ac#p187039
Nazis tried to create super-soldiers, using steroids ... they sought to reanimate the dead—coffins of famous Germanic warriors were found hidden in a mine, with plans to bring them back to life at the war’s end.
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Re: Sonderkommando photograph - so what if it's real?

Postby TheBlackRabbitofInlé » 3 years 3 months ago (Mon Dec 30, 2013 5:01 pm)

Nazis tried to create super-soldiers, using steroids ... they sought to reanimate the dead—coffins of famous Germanic warriors were found hidden in a mine, with plans to bring them back to life at the war’s end.
- Prof. Noah Charney

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Re: Sonderkommando photograph - so what if it's real?

Postby borjastick » 3 years 3 months ago (Tue Dec 31, 2013 8:22 am)

I have been studying this group of pictures over the past few days and have obviously seen the main shot many times over the years. I don't absolutely accept that it was at auschwitz though it could have been or at any other camp. The composite pictures produced by the believer brigade prove nothing, anyone could take a current picture in a location with barbed wire fences in the background and by perspective make it fit the suggested location in the grainy monotone picture.

But perhaps it is the workers and activity that should be brought into doubt and question. There are seven or eight workers shown. None is wearing a military or inmate striped uniform. They look to me to be local workmen brought in to clean up some of the remains of the dead after the camp was 'liberated' by the Russians. The Russians cleansed the camp and presented 'facts and evidence' to suit the claims they were making, they never showed the remains cremated or otherwise, the pool of ashes, the piles of cremation ash of one million plus dead all over the local fields. Why not? This would have been almost irrefutable but they seemed to have forgotten to do it...

All in all this group of pictures doesn't look right and it doesn't smell right.
'Of the four million Jews under Nazi control in WW2, six million died and alas only five million survived.'


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