Nizkor question #30 - ventilation of alleged gas chambers

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Nizkor question #30 - ventilation of alleged gas chambers

Postby Peter H » 1 decade 5 years ago (Sat Mar 20, 2004 5:23 pm)

Nizkor question #30 - ventilation of alleged gas chambers
from:
http://www.nizkor.com/features/qar/


This one is simple:

30. How long does it take to ventilate fully an area fumigated by Zyklon-B?

The IHR says:

Normally about 20 hours. The whole procedure is extremely involved and technical. Gas masks have to be used and only well-trained technicians are employed.

Nizkor replies:

No. The "20 hours" figure is irrelevant for a variety of reasons.

First of all, the figure is intended to apply to ordinary, unventilated, commercial- or home-use buildings. One should not reenter an ordinary building within that period of time, because there is little if any forced ventilation. Furthermore, ordinary items like carpets, drapes, furniture, and so on lengthen the time required to restore fresh air. The Nazi gas chambers, on the other hand, were empty concrete rooms, forcibly ventilated, so even five minutes was enough to recycle the air.
(enphasis added).

So the nazis exterminated the jews by gassing empty rooms? The usual story says that the rooms were packed with people. Ther would have been lots of small spaces inside the pile of corpses filled with HCN-gas, making the ventilation procedure very difficult. And how about corpses falling over the Zyklon-B pellets? There would still be lots of HCN in them even after hours of ventilation.

If the "20 hours ventilation period" above was true, this would mean that the corpses of people executed using cyanide gas in US gas chambers would remain tied to the chair 20 hours after they were killed.


No, the U.S. gas chambers have an extremely good ventilation system, and the chambers don't have any air pockets that makes ventilation troublesome. If the gas chambers are stacked with people, many hours of ventilation would be needed even in the modern U.S. chambers

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Postby Moderator » 1 decade 5 years ago (Sat Mar 20, 2004 7:58 pm)

Peter:

I edited your initial post as it opened the door for 66 separate discussion points in one thread, against the guidelines....and for good reason. Have a look at those guidelines again if need be.

If you object to my edit I'll delete this thread.

Thanks for your cooperation,

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 5 years ago (Sat Mar 20, 2004 8:24 pm)

1st, a few links to threads here:

- 'two tons of Zyklon-B, but no corresponding residue':
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=875

- 'David Cole's 46 Unanswered Questions':
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=599

- 'Show me or draw me a Nazi gas chamber ventilation system':
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=307

Read here as the ridiculous Auschwitz 'expert', Robert Van Pelt, is demolished:
the ventilation system for Morgue 1, Krema II

by Winston

5. The Ventilation System
Prof. van Pelt writes [p. 208]: It is important to note here that there is no indication that either Bischoff or Prüfer envisioned a homicidal use for the smaller morgue in the new crematorium. But the presence of the powerful ventilation system charged the design from its inception with a genocidal potentiality which would only require small modifications in the design to be actualized. Indeed: it was the presence of such a ventilation system in the crematorium of the main camp which, seven weeks earlier, had inspired Lagerführer Fritsch to use the mortuary of the crematorium as an experimental gas chamber.

Germar Rudolf:
Prof. van Pelt doesn't give any reference for his experimental gassing claim. But what is more important: He hides the actual performances of the ventilation systems, which indeed reveal that morgue 1, the alleged 'gas chamber', was never intended to be used as a homicidal 'gas chamber'.
1. All morgues in Birkenau had ventilations systems with some 10 air exchanges per hour, a normal performance, as this was required by German war-time law for underground morgues (5-10 air exchanges per hour)[30]
2. A comparison between the performance of the alleged 'gas chamber' and that of the alleged victim's undressing room reveals that there is nothing sinister with the ventilation of morgue 1 ('gas chamber'), as its performance is even lower than that of the undressing room: morgue 1 ('gas chamber'): 9.94 exchanges per h morgue 2 ('undressing cellar'): 10.35 exchanges per h

3. War-time literature recommended some 70 air exchanges per hour for professional delousing chambers, a standard that must be expected for 'professional' homicidal 'gas chambers' as well. [31] In fact, that is 7 times more than that of the systems of these morgues! After a close inspection of the documented facts it is clear that Prof. van Pelt's "powerful ventilation system" is nothing but a fiction.

[30] Re. requirements see W. Heepke,Die Leichenverbrennungs-Anstalten (die Krematorien), Verlag von CarlMarhold, Halle a.S. 1905, p. 104; re. performance in Auschwitz: Archive ofAuschwitz Museum, D-Z/Bau, nr. inw. 1967, pp. 246 - 247; cf. C. Mattogno'sresearch on this in"Auschwitz: Das Ende einer Legende", in: H.Verbeke (ed.),Auschwitz: Nackte Fakten, VHO, Berchem 1995 http://www.vho.org/D/anf/MattognoR.html ;English;Auschwitz:The End of a Legend,Granata, Palos Verdes 1994. [31]P. Puntigam, H. Breymesser, E.Bernfus,Blausäurekammern zur Fleckfieberabwehr, Sonderveröffentlichungdes Reichsarbeitsblattes, Berlin 1943, p. 50. The documents quoted here and innote 30 can be found at C. Mattogno's quoted article (note 30); http://www.vho.org/D/anf/MattognoR.html


Another example of Van Pelt's nonsense is when he tries to say the tip-off that a morgue was used as a 'gas chamber' was that it had a "powerful ventilation system".

on page 208 of his book: 'Auschwitz 1270 to the Present', Van Pelt writes:
It is important to note here that there is no indication that either [SS officers] Bischoff or Prüfer envisioned a homicidal use for the smaller morgue in the new crematorium. But the presence of the ***powerful ventilation system*** charged the design from its inception with a genocidal potentiality which would only require small modifications in the design to be actualized. Indeed: it was the presence of such a ventilation system in the crematorium of the main camp which, seven weeks earlier, had inspired Lagerführer Fritsch to use the mortuary of the crematorium as an experimental gas chamber.


Chemist, German Revisionist, Germar Rudolf replies:
Prof. van Pelt doesn't give any reference for his experimental gassing claim. But what is more important: He hides the actual performances of the ventilation systems, which indeed reveal that morgue 1, the alleged 'gas chamber', was never intended to be used as a homicidal 'gas chamber'.
1. All morgues in Birkenau had ventilations systems with some 10 air exchanges per hour, a normal performance, as this was required by German war-time law for underground morgues (5-10 air exchanges per hour)[30]
2. A comparison between the performance of the alleged 'gas chamber' and that of the alleged victim's undressing room reveals that there is nothing sinister with the ventilation of morgue 1 ('gas chamber'), as its performance is even lower than that of the undressing room: morgue 1 ('gas chamber'): 9.94 exchanges per h morgue 2 ('undressing cellar'): 10.35 exchanges per h

3. War-time literature recommended some 70 air exchanges per hour for professional delousing chambers, a standard that must be expected for 'professional' homicidal 'gas chambers' as well. [31] In fact, that is 7 times more than that of the systems of these morgues! After a close inspection of the documented facts it is clear that Prof. van Pelt's "powerful ventilation system" is nothing but a fiction.

[30] Re. requirements see W. Heepke,Die Leichenverbrennungs-Anstalten (die Krematorien), Verlag von CarlMarhold, Halle a.S. 1905, p. 104; re. performance in Auschwitz: Archive ofAuschwitz Museum, D-Z/Bau, nr. inw. 1967, pp. 246 - 247; cf. C. Mattogno'sresearch on this in"Auschwitz: Das Ende einer Legende", in: H.Verbeke (ed.),Auschwitz: Nackte Fakten, VHO, Berchem 1995 http://www.vho.org/D/anf/MattognoR.html ;English;Auschwitz:The End of a Legend,Granata, Palos Verdes 1994. [31]P. Puntigam, H. Breymesser, E.Bernfus,Blausäurekammern zur Fleckfieberabwehr, Sonderveröffentlichungdes Reichsarbeitsblattes, Berlin 1943, p. 50. The documents quoted here and innote 30 can be found at C. Mattogno's quoted article (note 30); http://www.vho.org/D/anf/MattognoR.html


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Postby Sailor » 1 decade 5 years ago (Sun Mar 21, 2004 1:56 pm)

I think that they are both wrong: IHR with the 20 hours ventilation time and Nizkor with their 5 minutes.

In Section 7.3.2.2.3. "Ventilation of the Morgues of Crematorium II and III" of the "Rudolf Report"
http://www.vho.org/GB/Books/trr/7.html#7.3.2.

Rudolf calculated an amount of 20 kg Zyklon-B necessary to kill 1000 people within 10 minutes in morgue 1 of Krema II. (i.e. five 1kg cans per chute) and 1½ to 2 hours follow-up ventilation.

The Rudolf Report is somewhat technical.

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 5 years ago (Sun Mar 21, 2004 2:19 pm)

I would actually like to see what the IHR rep. says. I don't doubt in the least that the lie proned Nizkor misrepresented what the IHR actually stated.

Take note that none of Nizkor's Believers dare to debate us here. They know they would get crushed in a civil discussion.

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Postby Peter H » 1 decade 5 years ago (Tue Mar 23, 2004 10:31 pm)

Moderator wrote:Peter:

I edited your initial post as it opened the door for 66 separate discussion points in one thread, against the guidelines....and for good reason. Have a look at those guidelines again if need be.


Ok, I'm sorry. I'm new here and haven't memorized the guidelines yet. :wink:

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Postby Moderator » 1 decade 5 years ago (Tue Mar 23, 2004 11:05 pm)

Welcome to the Forum, it's good to have you.

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Postby AgainsTTheWall » 1 decade 5 years ago (Wed Mar 24, 2004 9:39 am)

I am unable to provide specifics - please forgive me. But I have also seen the point made that the Zyklon would not wholly evaporate immediately upon being introduced to the gas chamber but would take several hours before it no longer gave off fumes. Hence no amount of ventilation would render the gas chamber safe to enter in advance of the granules drying out.

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Postby Sailor » 1 decade 5 years ago (Wed Mar 24, 2004 11:04 am)

AgainsTTheWall wrote:I am unable to provide specifics - please forgive me. But I have also seen the point made that the Zyklon would not wholly evaporate immediately upon being introduced to the gas chamber but would take several hours before it no longer gave off fumes. Hence no amount of ventilation would render the gas chamber safe to enter in advance of the granules drying out.

This is exactly my point. It takes several hours for Zyklon-B to discharge all its HCN poison gas, but according to the witness testimonies the exhaust ventilation was started already after 10 minutes, and 30 minutes later the "Sonderkommando" went in unprotected, no gas masks, to withdraw the corpses, while the Zyklon-B was still discharging about half of its poison gas content.

Some Holocaust mythologists now claim, that the Zyklon-B was pulled out of the morgue after 10 minutes or so, but the witness testimonies I read (Höss, Broad, Münch, Tauber) do not say this.

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Postby Peter H » 1 decade 5 years ago (Sat Mar 27, 2004 1:02 pm)

Sailor wrote:
AgainsTTheWall wrote:I am unable to provide specifics - please forgive me. But I have also seen the point made that the Zyklon would not wholly evaporate immediately upon being introduced to the gas chamber but would take several hours before it no longer gave off fumes. Hence no amount of ventilation would render the gas chamber safe to enter in advance of the granules drying out.

This is exactly my point. It takes several hours for Zyklon-B to discharge all its HCN poison gas, but according to the witness testimonies the exhaust ventilation was started already after 10 minutes, and 30 minutes later the "Sonderkommando" went in unprotected, no gas masks, to withdraw the corpses, while the Zyklon-B was still discharging about half of its poison gas content.
fge



Yes, this would have killed the Sondercommandos, but the exterminationists have an answer to that; "the nazis didn't care if the Sondercommandos were poisoned. They were to be killed anyway".

But since the "gas chamber" door was opened _inside_ the crematorium, wouldn't that make the whole operation risky?

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 5 years ago (Sat Mar 27, 2004 1:26 pm)

...but the exterminationists have an answer to that; "the nazis didn't care if the Sondercommandos were poisoned. They were to be killed anyway".


That's a typically dumb response from Believers in the absurd. It is shot down rather easily:

- We have sonderkommandos who 'survived' and whose bizarre & impossible 'testimonies' are cited regularily, think Filip Muller

- And ofcourse what Peter alluded to, the entire area outside would have been effectively gassed when the doors were opened while the Zyklon-B was necessarily still releasing cyanide.

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Postby rrohde » 1 decade 5 years ago (Thu Apr 01, 2004 3:55 pm)

From what I've read, the manufacturer of "Zykon B" said that 24 hours are required to ventilate a room.

I am currently reading "Auschwitz, Taetergestaendnisse und Augenzeigenberichte des Holocaust" (transl.: "Auschwitz, Suspect Confessions and Eyewittness Reports of the Holocaust") by Juergen Graf.

On page 212, in reference to the "eyewitness reports", where, allegedly, the gaschamber victims died within minutes, and the doors to the gaschambers were opened right away, Juergen Graf says that "[...] man muss einen mit Zyklon gesaettigten Raum stundenlang lueften (der Hersteller schreibt 24 Stunden vor)."

(transl.: "[...]one has to ventilate a with Zyklon saturated room for hours (the manufacturer recommends 24 hours)."

On the same page was this nice little sketch by the French sketch-artist Konk, that shows what would have happened if the gaschambers would have been opened as alledged:

Image


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